Doin The 5S-FTE,from a bonestock 5S-FE(neo come innn)

[Freshnicity]

So the motor in my 1990 toyota celica GT is bad, no doubt about it, last owner ran it hot, an its gone

So ive decided on what im going to do with this lovely project car, i just need a little advice/help(neo has been real helpful). here are the options

1)Buy a longblock from the junkyard($300 or so) and rebuild the engine all together, to restore it to its once great self. Not sure exactly WHAT to do, thats where you guys come in. What would i have to do to tune this 5s to perfection?Im going to be replacing the valves/springs MAYBE cams, i want a higher rev limit. But what else? should i hone the block?

2)buy a bonestock 5s from the local attarco for $750 after tax,leave it as is, and start gathering parts for the turbo im going to be putting in the car. This means not tuning the engine that much, less engine tuning, more focus on preparing car for turbo.

Either way, the car will be turbo'd with a CT26 more than likely(probably with 4-8lb boost? maybe up to like 12 with an intercooler? not sure). So, which should i do? rebuild from an old engine? or spend the $750, an just go straight toward the turbo?

(my opinion is to build the engine a little before the turbo, so its not so hard on the engine,plus it might be better performance wise in the long run)

Hit me with that advice, this is by far the most helpful forum ive found on Celica's

Thanks in advance


and no i refuse to do the swap to the 3s-gte lol. Im going to build this 5sfte.

[Freshnicity]

bumping this.

I need some help, ive read so many articles on this. Are either of these acurate?

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t52814.html

and

http://warp.scl.utah.edu/mr2/Turbo5sfe.html im leaning toward this one

[concealer404]

1) You have a Rev1 motor. No knock sensor. I personally wouldn't turbo it, but that's up to you.
2) If you're going to turbo, don't worry about the rev limit. Unless you BUILD your bottom end, increasing your rev limit will just make you blow up that much faster anyways.
3) You're going to want an intercooler either way. You WILL blow up your motor pretty damn immediately if you put on a CT26 with no intercooler, i don't care if it's only 4psi.

If you're going to stick with your 5sfe, then i would do a couple things:

1) Actually BUILD your bottom end, which you haven't even talked about in your post
2) Leave the head alone, except for maybe get your cams reground by Webcams.
3) Consider swapping to a rev2 motor/ecu/electronics. It WILL cost more, but you'll have a knock sensor.

Without a knock sensor, your motor will knock itself apart. It's been proven many a time, and it's rather common knowledge.

[concealer404]

Oh...

And the first link you posted is garbage. Besides the fact that almost every other word is mis-spelled, there is a TON of mis-information, and BS.

The second link, good stuff. I'm familar with who wrote it, and you can take that as your boost bible to start.

[new echo owner]

There are a few questions that you need to answer first before deciding on how you are going to work on this project of building your engine up.

How much money do you want to put into it?
Who will be doing the work?
What is your experience and back ground on working on cars?
What is your ultimate goal or target with this project?

There are a lot of things out there that you can put on the car, but not everything works together. Furthermore, there is always the chance of over building the engine; you can't put a 500HP engine into a car that can only handle 300, raw housepower is no good if you can't put it to the gorund, unless you just like smoking the tires everytime you take off.

You have a dead motor there, why not take it apart for practise to get familiar with the inner workings of the 5sfe.

N.E.O.

[Freshnicity]

Hey thanks for all the replys

Concealer: what do you mean by BUILDING my bottom end? can you elaborate more? And when you say rev2 motor, do you mean anything in specific? I was thinking of swapping to a 3s-ge, an turboing it myself, would that be a better alternative rather then building a 5S-FTE?

And yeah, the rev limit thing didint really bug me until a friend brought it up, i gave him the same answer you gave me, but i was thinking a higher rev ment a higher boost limit, which i dont really care about for this project. Thanks for the help Con, that one post helped out a lot.

And honestly Con, i reallllly want to do this 5sfte my dude, might not be the BEST thing out there, but its just something i want to do, will be fun/good experience building it all up. are there ANY 5sfe's that have knock sensors? maybe a different gen??
Neo:

How much money do you want to put into it? Max, like 4-5 grand(i dont HAVE 4 grand right now, thats why this project will take awhile, im just getting all of my information down straight before i actually start doing anything. i have some money to start right now though)
Who will be doing the work? Ill be doing most the work myself, me an a couple buddies, things that we dont know/cant do, will be taken to a shop, but we can handle most anything, i believe lol
What is your experience and back ground on working on cars? Ive been working on cars for maybe...3 years(around that)??? ive done a lot of mechanical work, timing belts,heads,helped a couple buds swap motors,dont have ANY expeirence in turboing that, hence all my questions lol.
What is your ultimate goal or target with this project? Goal is to take this car, an turn it into something great. Right now, the paint is worn, doesnt run, needs love(ima upload pics soon). What i want to do is run about 180-230whp(shooting for 200),with a "midsized turbo" in it, running about 8-12lbs of boost. Im going to lower it about 1.6inches i think, custom exhaust(for turbo) an what not. So yeah, im going to make it beautiful i guess you could say lol

Oh and for an update, i actually got the damn thing to turn over(yesssss)..needs new plugs/wires/dis. cap and rotor. so im going to see if after those fixes, itll start, if not well meh, if it does, i can drive it around and sell my other celica(92 ST) to get money to put into this one. it has 138,000, so when i go to do turbo, this engine is probably going to need rebuilding, or just a simple swap.

And heres a kit i found for the 90 GT..JDM kit..would that be worth purchasing and working on? or no?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDMS-...Q5fAccessories

thanks for all the help again

[concealer404]

Originally Posted by concealer404

Oh...

And the first link you posted is garbage. Besides the fact that almost every other word is mis-spelled, there is a TON of mis-information, and BS.

The second link, good stuff. I'm familar with who wrote it, and you can take that as your boost bible to start.

Originally Posted by Freshnicity

Hey thanks for all the replys

Concealer: what do you mean by BUILDING my bottom end? can you elaborate more? And when you say rev2 motor, do you mean anything in specific? I was thinking of swapping to a 3s-ge, an turboing it myself, would that be a better alternative rather then building a 5S-FTE?

Rods, pistons, bearings. The reason why the 5sfe is not "boost friendly" is not because of the head, not because of the pistons, etc... it's because the Rod Bolts are extremely weak. There's a couple ways to take care of it. You can either get aftermarket rods and pistons, which will run a pretty penny. OR: You can get your crank machined to accept 3sgte rods, and just use your choice of piston after that.

And yeah, the rev limit thing didint really bug me until a friend brought it up, i gave him the same answer you gave me, but i was thinking a higher rev ment a higher boost limit, which i dont really care about for this project. Thanks for the help Con, that one post helped out a lot.

Rev limit has no bearing on really.... anything. If your car makes power, who cares if it makes peak power at 4000 or 9000 rpms? It's about the powerBAND, not the peak rev. To raise the rev limit correctly, you'll have to fix the rod bolt problem, and THEN run a full EMS to create your custom map.

And honestly Con, i reallllly want to do this 5sfte my dude, might not be the BEST thing out there, but its just something i want to do, will be fun/good experience building it all up. are there ANY 5sfe's that have knock sensors? maybe a different gen??

Sure, i understand. I'm all for a 5sfte, i think it's a great idea, but i also think that the majority of the people who attempt one think that it's way simpler and cheaper than it really is. It's all fine and dandy until you want to make some serious power. 1992+ 5sfes are "rev2" motors and they have knock sensors, better cams, and are smoother motors from my experience in general.

[Freshnicity]

Originally Posted by concealer404

Rods, pistons, bearings. The reason why the 5sfe is not "boost friendly" is not because of the head, not because of the pistons, etc... it's because the Rod Bolts are extremely weak. There's a couple ways to take care of it. You can either get aftermarket rods and pistons, which will run a pretty penny. OR: You can get your crank machined to accept 3sgte rods, and just use your choice of piston after that.





Rev limit has no bearing on really.... anything. If your car makes power, who cares if it makes peak power at 4000 or 9000 rpms? It's about the powerBAND, not the peak rev. To raise the rev limit correctly, you'll have to fix the rod bolt problem, and THEN run a full EMS to create your custom map.



Sure, i understand. I'm all for a 5sfte, i think it's a great idea, but i also think that the majority of the people who attempt one think that it's way simpler and cheaper than it really is. It's all fine and dandy until you want to make some serious power. 1992+ 5sfes are "rev2" motors and they have knock sensors, better cams, and are smoother motors from my experience in general.

Yeah i see what youre saying, with all the money its going to take to make this 5S-FTE, i COULD purchase the GTE, and do that couldnt i?I dont know, i just thought having a 5S-FTE would be cool, building it up myself, and i can could do it piece by piece, obstacle by obstacle, if i buy a GTE, its kind of just swap it in, make the mods, an there it is, right?


And im going to look into the 92+ 5s engines, maybe i should swap in one of those before moving toward turbo.

Con, if you had to choose, which would you do. 5s-fte, or take the time to save up for the GTE, an just do the simple things as i save(like lowering the car, maybe a diff exhaust, paint). i would LOVE to have a 5sfte, cause that means i could start buying this turbo parts part by part, an just keep marking them off my list you know.

and did you check out that JDM ebay link? that thing looks real iffy to me, i wanted a CT26 turbo, thats something else, how is that kit?

[PittsburghCeli]

That turbo kit looks like it would be fun to install and tweak. I have a 5S-FE and I might be interested in something like that. I am happy with 135hp but more would definitely be better. What engine parts would need rebuilding/reinforced for that? I drove over 400 miles in the past 2 days and 135hp with some weight reduction has me out accelerating V8 trucks. Does anyone know what the top speed is limited to, 112mph? I swear my car won't go faster than that. Good luck with your project!

[Freshnicity]

Originally Posted by PittsburghCeli

That turbo kit looks like it would be fun to install and tweak. I have a 5S-FE and I might be interested in something like that. I am happy with 135hp but more would definitely be better. What engine parts would need rebuilding/reinforced for that? I drove over 400 miles in the past 2 days and 135hp with some weight reduction has me out accelerating V8 trucks. Does anyone know what the top speed is limited to, 112mph? I swear my car won't go faster than that. Good luck with your project!

i just talked to my teacher about this kit (he works at a toyota dealership, and has built cars for forumla D events, and has a pretty nice car himself) and he said that kit is a good starter kit, but dont produce much more power, and will be hard on the engine. Said that you'd need to probably mod a lot of it, since its universal, but it shouldnt be as much work as building a 5sfte the other way. He said that kit is less hassle, but not as much power.

I rather do a 5s-fte using parts off of the GTE(the way me an Con are talking about), but he said that kit is cool.

And thanks Pitt, think ill need some luck with this lol, and a second job haha.

and Con, ive done some pricing for this entire project, just for parts an other stuff..

my total was $1700...that sounds way to cheap..whats your price looking like lol

[concealer404]

I could put together a 5sfte for under $1000. But that's junkyard hopping like crazy.

It's up to you.... PERSONALLY, because you have a rev1 motor right now, i'd just save for a 3sgte. The end budget that you set yourself of $4-5k is a very good budget to swap a gen3 3sgte in there, which will put out damn near 300whp with bolt ons later.

In ALL honesty though... if i was going for just 300whp (i have a rev2 motor) i would just turbo my 5sfe and see where it goes.

[Freshnicity]

well yeah

with all that said Con

im convinced to save for a gen3 3sgte

I found on, on ebay, $1778 with everything, which is great..so yeah, thats my goal...out applying for a second job as we speak lol. 5-6 months from now, i should be sitting on a 3sgte..thanks a lot Con.

I think in the long run, the 3s will be a better choice..more hp, better project. Even thought putting together a 5sfte sounds great lol, i want that extra whp now that i think about it, want that power. Thanks Con, ill post pics of the car as is now, pretty soon, then again when the project is done. Going to document it all.

Once again, thanks Con, thanks Neo..Pitt...everybody..3S-GTE here I come..

[concealer404]

You just have to beat me to it. :p

Same swap i'm doing, but i have some interesting goodies to go with it. I swear to god if this car doesn't hit low 11s i'm quitting celicas.

[Freshnicity]

Originally Posted by concealer404

You just have to beat me to it. :p

Same swap i'm doing, but i have some interesting goodies to go with it. I swear to god if this car doesn't hit low 11s i'm quitting celicas.

lol..so for everything i need, i found one on ebay for 1770.

does 2grand sound like a good goal to set to save for this engine?

and no, i wont beat you to it lol, its hard for me to save money

[concealer404]

Originally Posted by Freshnicity

lol..so for everything i need, i found one on ebay for 1770.

does 2grand sound like a good goal to set to save for this engine?

and no, i wont beat you to it lol, its hard for me to save money

It's not everything you need. There's stuff besides the clip that you'll need.

Fuel pump
Clutch/pressure plate/flywheel combo
Transmission crossmember if you're going to use an E-series tranny (which i recommend.)
Custom axle setup
Various wiring weirdness.
Guages

Budget AT LEAST $3k to start the swap. At LEAST. I have over $1300 in miscellaneous parts for the swap, and i haven't even ordered my clutch setup yet, and i need axles still.

There ARE corners that can be cut that will save you a good chunk of change, such as using your stock tranny, or an S54, but that's up to you. An S54 should be fine for a bolt on motor, but not much else. An S53 will probably let go on a bolt on 3sgte after awhile.

I'm looking for real power, so S-series was not an option.