71 celica need help - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
» Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Passenger and Sports Car Forums > Celica Forum

Celica Forum Forum for all Toyota Celica discussion! Including the ST16x/18x/20x, and ZZT230/231.

ToyotaNation.com is the premier Toyota Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-29-2009, 09:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
New TN User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: indiana
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View bauers22's Photo Gallery
71 celica need help

i have a 88 celica all trac turbo with few mods and im trading it for a 71 celica with 18rc and im not to familiar with these but hes is very clean and im wantd rwd i was wanting to no what could i do to the 71 celica to make it pretty quick i was thinking v8 but then read bout how hard it would be to do that like new drive train custom mounts and exhaust mani then the 3gste well thats a lot of money im not wanting to go the cheap cheap route but i dont have a lot of money to spend could someone help me out and thanks
bauers22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-30-2009, 04:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
RA28 + MX73
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 952
Gameroom cash: $107620
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View stepho's Photo Gallery
If you're used to the All-trac then you won't like the performance of the 18R-C.
But the can be replace with something much better.
Try these ideas for starters.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~stepho/celfaq.txt

And here's some ideas for the Lexus V8.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~stepho/mick.htm
http://members.iinet.net.au/~stepho/mods.htm#CarinaV8

- Stepho ('77 liftback with 18R-G twincam)
stepho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 01:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
New TN User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: indiana
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View bauers22's Photo Gallery
my ? is i no nothing bout the engines or anything it has the 18rc what would be a good swapp for that i kinda wanna go the turbo route or a decent fast n/a i have a lil money to spend tho
bauers22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 04:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
RA28 + MX73
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 952
Gameroom cash: $107620
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View stepho's Photo Gallery
Ah, this makes it harder.
If you know nothing about engines then swapping engines will definitely get you into trouble.
If you are prepared to experiment and learn (and get frustrated and get it wrong a couple of times first) then upgrading the '71 is a good way to go.
The existing stuff is simple (no computers, emission controls, etc), so they make a good basis for putting in better engines.

But if you are not prepared to experiment then the '71 will only give you frustration.
The original engine is reliable but a slug (only 88 HP) and handling is only mediocre.
Alternatively, you can pay someone to do it but this is usually quite expensive.

So, the question comes down to...
Are you willing to learn the hard way?

--------------

Assuming you are still willing, the easiest engine to put in is the 18R-G twincam.
A bit rare to find in America but a drop in replacement for 120HP.
Only needs a new exhaust and some simple changes to the accelerator linkage.
My 77 has a worked 18R-G for 160HP but a mild Nissan 200SX can still beat me.

Next easiest is the 22R.
Easy to find in America.
Needs a few mods to the engine crossmember to make it fit under the bonnet (hood).
Still only playing with 100HP but torque is quite good.

Next up is the 4A-GE and 3S-GE motors.
Lots of fabrication of engines mounts, gearbox mounts, computer wiring, etc.
Not good for a first time project.

After that are the turbo and supercharger models but they are even harder to do.

The Lexus V8 makes for a wonderful end result (see my link to Mick's V8) but is hard due to the amount of custom work involved.

- Stepho
stepho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 07:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
One with the force
 
Bitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Chicago
Posts: 4,835
Gameroom cash: $559600
Thanks: 3
Thanked 152 Times in 148 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View Bitter's Photo Gallery
22rte?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22RE#22R
Bitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 03:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
New TN User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: indiana
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View bauers22's Photo Gallery
ik bout engines thats not what im saying im saying idk nothing bout the 18r and 22r or anything but iv done swapps before soo what would be nice to do that could be quick and if all i have to do is fabricate motor mounts and gear box thats not a huge deal?
bauers22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 04:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
RA28 + MX73
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 952
Gameroom cash: $107620
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View stepho's Photo Gallery
Ah, it's the l33t sp34k which is throwing me. You will have to type it out the long way so that fossils like me know what you are talking about.
So I will assume that you have swapped engines before, know plenty about engines in general, know nothing about the 18R and 22R engine in particular, have little cash, want a simple swap and want performance not too far off the All-trac.
The last one is a very big ask given the simple/cheap assumptions.

The 18R-C is a lump.
You can make it go well but only by spending a large amount of money and making it unstreetable.

The 2000cc 18R-G and 18R-GU (anti smog version with cat) is a drop in with a Pacesetter exhaust.
120HP stock.
Add cams and Webers and it gets to 160HP without much drama but gets unstreetable above that (mine is at 160HP and has no power below 3000rpm).
Need to import parts (gasket kits, etc) from Asia/Australia
The 18R-GEU is the same as the 18R-GU but has EFI, larger valves and milder cams.

22R has plenty of torque and is close to a drop in.
Really should have a '75 engine crossmember but people have modded the '71 crossmember and/or mounts to make it fit under the bonnet (hood). It's a taller engine than the 18R but otherwise compatible.
Engine mounts positions are the same up to 1985.
Add a 20R head to raise the compression ration, new cam, new exhaust and you have a stump pulling engine up to 140/160HP beofre it gets unstreetable.
Plenty of parts in the US.
See www.lcengineering.com for go-fast bits.
See my web page for 20R head stuff
http://members.iinet.net.au/~stepho/eng20r.htm

22R-TE is the turbo version but it is optimised for low down torque.
New cams, new turbo, aftermarket computer and can be made to perform.
I'm not sure if the bottom end will survive at high revs/HP.
Better to ask the truck guys (came in the '87 truck from memory).

20R engine is the same as the 22R but only 2200cc.
For the same work, better to go for a 22R.

All 18R-C/G/GU/GEU, 20R and 22R/22R-TE engines up to 1985 have the same engine mounts and the same gearbox bolt pattern.
You can use either the W50 steel case 5 speed or the newer alloy W55 5 speed.
The alloy box will need a modified gearbox crossmember but takes the same drive shaft.
The A30 (3 speed), A40 (3 speed), A40D (4 speed) auto also fit all those engines and has the same drive shaft.
Gear sticks come up in different places depending on the donor vehicle but there are further options to choose from.

The 1600cc 4A-GZE supercharged engine from the AE86 Sprinter has been done in Malaysia. 5 speed gearbox is hard to find and a bit marginal if you increase the HP but the AE86 auto (compatible with the '71 Celia auto) holds the power well.

The 1600cc 4A-GE 16 valve has less power and isn't worth considering.
The 1600 4A-GE 20 valve has about the same as the supercharged version but the distributor will hit your firewall.
Replace with a crank angle sensor and aftermarket ECU.
Same gearbox sourcing problems as the 4A-GZE.

The early 3S-GE gives modest power but for much the same work you can have the 3S-GTE turbo engine from the all-trac.
From memory, it also has a distributor that hits the firewall but I will have to check that.
If you are lucky then you can find a late model Caldina 3S-GE with 6 speed sequential RWD gearbox at a Japanese importer.
A friend did this but it was rather involved.
Need to convert to rack and pinion from a AE70/86 Corolla.

Straight 6 engines are to be avoided.
They can be done but they are complex and usually put too much weight in front of the front wheels - which kills handling.

V6 and V8 engines have trouble clearing the exhaust and steering box.
Need to convert to rack and pinion from a AE70/86 Corolla.
V8 engine will need the firewall recessed.
Source engines from the Tacoma/Truck to get a RWD gearbox.
The Lexus V8 comes in auto only but Dellow in Australia have an (expensive) adapter for a manual gearbox.
See the link for Mick's V8 to get the general idea.

The RZ 4 cylinder engines from the Tacoma/Truck will probably work but I am not familiar with them.

The 18R/22R engines will all clear the sump and gearbox.
I will have to check if the other engines will clear your RA21 engine crossmember.
You may need to get a TA22 crossmember from Australia, which are getting quite rare now.
the TA22 crossmember is a direct fit but bends differently to clear the 2T engine's sump.
Many swaps use the AE70 or AE86 crossmember with rack and pinion steering but that requires further mods.

And of course you should be considering brake and suspension upgrades to go with all of this.
Whiteline make front and rear good anti-roll bars.
Noltec make good strut top camber adjusters.
Kings Springs and make good lowered springs.
The stock diff will handle to about 160HP (mine is stock) but above that you will need to upgrade to something bigger from a Supra or Hilux/Truck (F series or the stronger/heavier G series diff).
LSD is hard to find for the stock T series diff but easy to find from 4WD shops for the F and G series diffs.

- Stepho
stepho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2009, 09:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
New TN User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: indiana
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View bauers22's Photo Gallery
okay thanks i was also wondering would a turbo rotary engine fit from like a rx7?
bauers22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 02:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
RA28 + MX73
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 952
Gameroom cash: $107620
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
View stepho's Photo Gallery
The turbo does fit but it is quite involved.
A friend is doing this and his biggest problem was getting the drive shaft uni-joint angles within reason.
If you bolt up the 13B gearbox the straight forward way then the output shaft is very high.
That means the drive shaft uni-joints has to be at a sharp angle and they really don't like that.
My friend has huge problems with vibration due to this.
He is trying to find a way to mount the gearbox lower.

Timbo's 4sfed also did this conversion.
http://www.4sfed.com.au/
Note: he also had drive line vibration issues.

- Stepho
stepho is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Passenger and Sports Car Forums > Celica Forum

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
ToyotaNation.com is an independent Toyota/Lexus enthusiast website. ToyotaNation.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. The Toyota, Lexus and Scion names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.