4th gens

[allblackalltrac]

Dont bash on the 4G GTS's cause I have yet to see a 5G/6G GTS beat a 4G GTS with the same mods.

3S-GE>5S-FE>3S-FE

Also keep in mind that there was a 1G 3S-GE that made 160HP in the first year they came out...3S-GELU, the 2G 3SGE also had high comp. pistons and made 140HP respectively.

ST165:
3400LBS
190WHP
high 15's 1/4

ST164:
2800LBS
120WHP
low 16's 1/4

With very little mods, 95 oct. and a shit load of timing advance...a ST164 will match or beat a stock ST165...and by months end I intend to prove it.

As a matter of fact here is the list of mods performed on both cars that will be competing...both cars were rebuilt by yours truely, some variables may change closer towards the end of the month.


Edward's 88' AllTrac ST165:

Engine:
2.0L 3SGTE (1G) 200+KM
all new seals and gaskets with the exception of HG
stock rings and bearings
stock CT-26 with a shit load of exhaust cracks, max boost 8-9psi
new plugs wires cap and rotor
stock exhaust

Suspension & Tires:
stock suspension
stock 14" rims all season tires

Mod list:
3S-GE cams
gutted T-VIS
port matched intake manifold
A/C delete
charcol canister delete
cruise control delete
gutted primary cat
short shift
Speed Source shifter bushings
93 oct.
14* BTDC


Adam's (brother) 88' Celica GTS ST164:

Engine:
2.0L 3S-GE (1G) 200+KM
stock motor
stock exhaust

Suspension & Tires:
APEX springs
KYB struts
new tie rods, ball joints sway bar end links
ST165 sway bars
17" rims on bald tires

Mod list:
AFM mod
ITG intake
A/C delete
cruise control delete
short shift
95 oct.
18* BTDC
no spare, jack or back seats

[Kidane]

The new Accord Coupe V6 is pushing 240 horsepower, I seriously doubt you 'smoked' one.

Hey guys, I totally blew away this M3 in my Celica ST... 4AFE POWER 4 LYFE

[TubRog5]

I doubt a 4th gener gts is putting out 120 hp at the wheels. It only makes 135 hp at the crank. I haven't heard of any stock 1st generation 3sge putting out 160 hp right from the dealer. I've heard of 2nd generations putting out nearly 160 hp though, and not 140 hp. And yes, I do agree with the right modifications and tuning. A 4th gener gts can be quite the beast considering it is a g motor and not an f. Therefore, it should respond to modifications better. So yeah, with the same mods you put on a 5sfe vs a 3sge. A 3sge will be responding better with hp and torque power jumps than that of a 5sfe. Stock for stock though, I have yet to see a 6th gener gt/gts get spanked by a 4th gener gts. A 5th gener is a different story with its much heavier curb weight. I suppose you can almost say a 6th vs a 4th is a driver's race, but with its 145 lbs/ft of torque on a lighter car. I just don't really see it happening.

[dynamictuner]

A while back I did talk about beating a 7th GTS in my 3SFE car but it wasnt a 6speed it was a 5speed. and the guy I dunno couldnt race or what ever but I know he took off from the line after that I couldnt tell ya what happened. My 3SGE I have taken these cars I mean shit I got a video camera now Im gonna try to record it this friday or so. Did I even say my mods I thought so.... this is my 3SGE my GTS HERE....!!!
Custom CAI
Catback Exhaust
Rebuilt engine
Ported and Polished head
NGK plugs
Nology Wires
I have no AC compressor or powersteering pump.
No Back seats
No Spare
KYB Struts
Intrax springs
Crossdrilled front rotors
Hawk Pads

No with that I should dyno soon at about 160hp I know at least and I weigh like nothing... Dude once I get the videos you will see. I can beat my friends 03.5 Mazdaspeed and its turbo. so why couldnt I beat the new ones?? HMM!!!

[TubRog5]

I hope you know, theres no such thing as a 5 speed 7th generation gts. Theres only the 4 speed automatic and the 6 speed manual transmission. And yes you did say you beat a 6 speed 7th generation gts with your 3sfe. Don't try and change your stories.

I originally did not know you had a 4th generation gts. Now I know. But, a 7th generation gts with a 6 speed is still a beast even if you can't see it. Everyone is biased with their cars, their manufacturer and their generations. I'll tell you this though, when the 2zz hits lift and stays in lift, its no joke. I can maybe see you take on or keep up with a 2zz with your 3sge if the other guy isn't much of a driver, but if they know they're 2zz. You don't stand a chance. Its almost a driver's race, but in most cases, I'll have my money on the 2zz. If you were to race an automatic, you'd take it easy.

[lcarocha]

Originally posted by allblackalltrac
Dont bash on the 4G GTS's cause I have yet to see a 5G/6G GTS beat a 4G GTS with the same mods.

3S-GE>5S-FE>3S-FE

Also keep in mind that there was a 1G 3S-GE that made 160HP in the first year they came out...3S-GELU, the 2G 3SGE also had high comp. pistons and made 140HP respectively.

Err.....

1st Gen 3S-GE = 135 HP

2nd Gen 3S-GE = 165 HP

American ST16X (except ST165) has the 1st Generation 3S-GE.

You probably wont see that happening in the U.S. or Canada, but here all ST182 came with the 2nd Gen 3S-GE and not the crappy 5S-FE (I know better, I used to own a 92 GT-S ), trim level is GT-i 16 (same as in Europe/Jap) so the car is rather light (1.250 Kgs) and we run 95 Octane gas... car IS fast.

I dont have numbers bacause we only have 2 tracks here and both are a 2 hour drive away, but I can seriously say that the USDM GT/GT-S will be left behind against our ST182 but never against a 4th Gen ST16.

[turbotrdcelica]

Just ask this dynamic tuner to get a pic of him next to the car because I don't even beleive he owns a celica. He is always talking mad shit about his cars but never have pics to prove he owns the cars he post pictures of, he also supposedly has a 3s-gte which has like 450hp & his stepdad built it & all this BS
then he is asking me about simple mods like how to intall a boost controller, well I'm sorry but you have to have a boost controller to have a 450hp 3S-GTE. I know what is required to build a high horsepower 3s-gte first one I owned dyno'ed at 568hp & this guy doesn't know shit about what is required to hit 250hp. I don't think he owns a celica If he did he would know that the 4th GEN GTS would get it's ass handed to it by a 90-93 GT or GTS let alone a 7th Gen GTS or a alltrac. Any ALLTRAC WOULD WOOP HIS ASS.
I have a 87 Celica GT with a ST185 RC Carlos Sainz engine & I smoke alltracs & 7th gen GTS's everyday occasionally a base model Vette & a camaro.

But come on a 3S-GE with ported & polished head & all the external mods will make what 145hp 140ft lbs torque wow

4th Gens have potential but only because they are cheap & share the same engine mounts as later model engines.
3s-gte & BEAMS 3S-GE


Dynamictuner= STUPID RICER

[TRDcelicaGTFOUR]

All I have to say is 4th gen GT-S 3S-GE, is one quick and fun car. I beat a 1996-1999 SiR, maybe he couldnt drive or whatnot, but my 4th gens 2nd gear makes that car. He was surprised to see me take him, and oh what a feeling. I also kept slightly in front of an older (mid 80's) stang, he had 5.0 badges, but theres no way in hell it was, unless he cant drive if his life depended on it, man was he bitter after that, he wouldnt let me merge from a 2 lane to a single lane, but thats what happens when you mess with 3S-GE's. LOL. Overall, their great engines, their light cars, and tons of potential if you have the money/patience/love to put into these older celis.

[PsychoCelica]

come on. stock,these GTSs are pretty quick. All I had on my silver GTS before I bought an RX7 was a Pacesetter 4 into 1 header (for a 3SFE) adapted to fit in the 3SGE,K&N filter with holes drilled in the air box,NGK 8.5mm plugs,Vibrant Performance fart can and NGK plugs. I ran 0-60 in just over 7 sec with it (not blazingly fast,but faster than stock for a few hundred bucks) and I even did a top speed run,and I have heard these cars only do 122mph,but let me tell you,I had the needle reading 132mph (approx 230kmh) before I had to back off for traffic ahead.

I raced many cars,such as my friend's twin cam Passat,rated at 138hp,Golfs,Ford Probe GT V6,RSX (base model),Civics,Cavalier Z24s and more and beat em all.

So if you think 4th gens are slow,you are wrong. They are not blazingly fast,but they are definetly quick. My RX7 was much faster than all the cars mentioned,including the Celica. I had a Racing Beat header,with 2.5" piping,Magnaflow muffler,Racing Beat aluminum flywheel and a K&N intake on it. Man,she was fast for a non turbo.

[MAD MAN]

im not a big toyota fan i like my datsun 280 zxt s i have 3 but im impressed by my 89 toy celica gts i got it for a winter beater for 200 bucks put a wheel bering in it and good to go this car screems i never had a front wheel drive that whould brake the front tires lose going down the road [when runing it hard]the 3s ge runs great the steering is a bit too touchy gas milage is good about 30 but it suck in the winter with its 205 60 r14s by the way what size tire can i put on the front snow tires to clear spring and wells very good car and fast will beat most 4cyl out thare i like toys a littel better now

[19Celi87]

I could beat All-Trac on my kids trike. . .IF THE ALL-TRAC WAS OPPERATED BY AN EIGHT YEAR OLD WHO DOES NOT EVEN KNOW THERE IS A CLUTCH 'PEDDAL'.

And the truth is, as Toyota STARTED with such a great motor line in the Celica, they had no where to go except features and weight. Over-priced-under powered and heavy was a common rip buy reviewers in later years.
Toyota really did not focus too much on Celica after 1997. SCION! Look at the motor in the TC. Now put that in the Sevens in 2000 and go UP from there. . .you would still have had a viable market today.

[TubRog5]

I see you edited out what you wrote to me.

[turbotrdcelica]

I was not trying to bash 4th gen GTS's at all cause I have owned every trim level of the 4th gen & I love 4th gens. & I will actually recant my statement about it getting owned by a 5th gen GT/GTS cause that would honestly be a drivers race. But a alltrac vs GTS. The alltrac is going to beat you.

I now own a 86 GTS it had a JDM 3S-GE with the corresponding ECU & I dynoed it out at 140hp to the wheels so the JDM 3S-GELU does put about 170hp to the fly. I ended up spinning a bearing on it & took the ST185 RC engine & puttin it in the GTS.

My whole point of my earlier post is that Dynamic Tuner has always talked shit & never backed it up.

[A Diddy]

7th gen gt-s will destroy both of dynamics cars, in a new engine everything is working at rating pretty much, no loss due to age issues and the 2zz is just a higher performance engine. I have owned both a 91 gt-s and a 2002 gt-s and the 2002 is very fun and quick once you pass 4K rpm, sure the low end torque isnt great, but after you get into 2nd you can deal with it. I'd love to see you race a 7th gen gt-s with your "modded gt-s" and you would still get embarassed.

[90celicaGT-S]

5th gen gt/s<4th gen gts<6th gen gt<alltrac<7th gen gts