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Old 07-24-2011, 02:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question degreasing oil pump bolt holes

i'm doing my timing belt on my 95 celica gt [5sfe] and figured i'd replace the oil pump o ring while i was in there. putting it back together, i packed it with petroleum jelly as per conventional wisdom. unbeknownst to me, a little got in the top middle hole, so when I was bringing the body cover bolts up to torque, the bolt broke and i had to drill it out. that sucked.

that's how i discovered that lube affects torque. the Haynes manual says little about this other than in the very beginning where it says torque values are for dry unlubricated threads unless otherwise specified. I think that petroleum jelly is a much more effective lube than motor oil for bolt threads because of its viscosity, and could probably be similar to some waxes for which you are supposed to cut the torque by 50%!

so i took it apart and washed all the parts, and will now try again, using some higher grade bolts i picked up. I used q-tips to try to clean out the bolt holes as much as possible. I then used 91% isopropyl alchohol on the q-tips as a degreaser, followed again by dry q-tips. an experiment i did showed me that neither isopropyl nor acetone seems to be a very good solvent for petroleum jelly. this sorta makes sense to me since they are both fairly polar molecules.

my thought then was maybe i should put some dawn dish soap liquid on the q tips, then use dry q-tips again, then wet, then dry. the problem is that it seems like many q tips have been required to get the bolt holes sorta clean and i noticed that when i push one of the q-tips into the top middle bolt hole, i can see it stretch the gasket behind the oil pump, in the area above the upper left bolt hole.



It looks like 5 of the bolts that hold the oil pump body cover on comprise about half of what holds the oil pump to the engine block. without them, it's possible that the seal is not holding and that oil keeps seeping into the 5 aforementioned bolt holes. I'm worried that dawn or degreaser put in those holes could seep into the engine and make a big mess. Perhaps this is why the Haynes manual and alldata both require removing the entire oil pump (which is a ridiculous pain in the ass).

so, should i attempt any further degreasing, or should i just put it back together and risk that some of the bolts will be over torqued? is that likely to lead to a leak?
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You are waaaay over thinking this. The bolts look like they're in the proper location.
Here's what we pro's do when completing this task.
Like you said, the oil pump o-ring, we like to call the 'bat' seal because it's shaped like a bat, or 'race track' seal as some call it,...needs to be covered in some sticky grease like Vaseline. or Sil-Glyde (i like to use).
When tightening these bolts, let's not forget ur compressing this seal, so in all actuality, just a snug and 1/4 turn of each bolt is needed. (no torquing)
Toyota brake cleaner is our best friend in the degreasing process. And all this is accomplished within minutes with us.
BTW, great pictures and excellent explanation, just way over the top.
My opinion: roll with it.

Oh, and when I have it all completed, I like to put my air ratchet or cordless impact socket on the pump gear and actually run it to prime the motor and check for leaks before final assy.
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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brake cleaner, yes, i have some CRC brake cleaner. one additional detail. the service records from the previous owner don't say anything about the oil pump ever being removed, but it looks like that gasket behind the oil pump is made out of rubber! i don't know how that would be the case, but it is black and stretches when i put the q tip in the top middle hole like i was saying. that being the case, brake cleaner would damage it, correct? that's why i went with alchohol at first.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperbozo View Post
brake cleaner, yes, i have some CRC brake cleaner. one additional detail. the service records from the previous owner don't say anything about the oil pump ever being removed, but it looks like that gasket behind the oil pump is made out of rubber! i don't know how that would be the case, but it is black and stretches when i put the q tip in the top middle hole like i was saying. that being the case, brake cleaner would damage it, correct? that's why i went with alchohol at first.
Sounds to me that some tech in the past put some Toyota FIPG sealant on the threads of the bolts when doing the last oil pump reseal.
It looks like rubber when cured.
The actual oil pump body has a composite gasket. Almost like a steel plate.
I've never seen one leak. The older 3S-FE did, which was paper gasket.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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this little piece of it behind the pump moves to the right when i push the q tip in this hole. yes, it really does look and feel rubbery. nobody ever made an aftermarket gasket out of rubber?

Tech1984, it really is awesome that you are lending your experience to this forum and myself.
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bumperbozo View Post


this little piece of it behind the pump moves to the right when i push the q tip in this hole. yes, it really does look and feel rubbery. nobody ever made an aftermarket gasket out of rubber?

Tech1984, it really is awesome that you are lending your experience to this forum and myself.
Interesting. I'll have to try that on the next one. I have no explaination for that.
Just clicking the thanks button is enough appreciation for me.
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