What's up with the GTS motor - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Clean SE-R · 09-13-2004, 07:40 PM

being such a POS!!!

I do A LOT of track events in my '92 Sentra SE-R (zero problems to this day) and have heard tons of personal stories at the track about GTS motors blowing up. Then today I read a letter written in the October Car and Driver mag about a guy who went through FOUR motors in his 2000 GTS!!!! This worries me a little about Toyota quality. Sounds to me as if it is going DOWN.

I wonder if my parents '98 4 banger Camry will hold up over the years.

Zrain · 09-13-2004, 07:45 PM

5sFE = BULLET PROOF
2zz-GE = NOT BULLET PROOF

the Camry will out live most things.

robbie · 09-13-2004, 08:02 PM

Toyota are renound for their engines reliability, the very fact that the person has blown four engines on the track shows that he is pushing the engine too far for his current setup. What kind of aftermarket parts/settings is he/she running?

Zrain · 09-13-2004, 08:03 PM

^good point, blowing 4 mottors is an achivment only worthy of a pure DUMB ass.

sagaboy77 · 09-13-2004, 11:32 PM

if you read the article carefully he misshifted causing the motors to blow.

The problem with the GTS motors are teh drivers. Plain and simple.

The 2000-2001 celica's have very close shift gates so most people tend to shift into the wrong gear causing overrevving thus causing the engine to blow.

You are gonna get that with any car reving that high with that high of a compression rating.

The 02's and up have wider shift gates to help prevent people from misshifting but unfortunatly ther are quite a few dumbasses who don't payattention while shifting causes them to misshift.

So asyou can see it is not a proble with the motor itseld but teh person using the motor.

robbie · 09-14-2004, 01:12 AM

lol! 4 engines by bad shifting?! I would be more careful after blowing one engine let alone blowing 4 of them for fucks sake!

Zrain · 09-14-2004, 09:25 AM

They Need to make Tranys that are Idiot Proof. they cant be downshifted into the Car's Red Line.

it could be done with a Computer and a Celinoid Activating a Lock out pin. the computer should be programable so that tuners who have Balinced mottors can up the redline.

Clean SE-R · 09-14-2004, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sagaboy77
if you read the article carefully he misshifted causing the motors to blow.
So asyou can see it is not a proble with the motor itseld but teh person using the motor.

Bzzzzt. Wrong. If YOU read it carfully it says that he blew ONE motor by mis-shifting. One was rebuilt wrong and TWO blew up under stress.
Again I know of people who I have personally spoken with that have blown up their GTS motors because the motors are weak! Bottom line is they suck. I know guys who do track events with 170K mile original motors in their 12 year old Sentra SE-R's...ZERO problems.

Clean SE-R · 09-14-2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zrain
5sFE = BULLET PROOF
2zz-GE = NOT BULLET PROOF

the Camry will out live most things.

Good to hear that the Camry is good to go.

Kwanza · 09-14-2004, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clean SE-R
Bzzzzt. Wrong. If YOU read it carfully it says that he blew ONE motor by mis-shifting. One was rebuilt wrong and TWO blew up under stress.
Again I know of people who I have personally spoken with that have blown up their GTS motors because the motors are weak! Bottom line is they suck. I know guys who do track events with 170K mile original motors in their 12 year old Sentra SE-R's...ZERO problems.

If you look at it, it's really a silly comparison... The 2ZZ is a horsepower motor, while the SR20DE and 5SFE are torque motors. Any high-revving alluminim block motor will blow if the drivers are careless, and being they're high-revving, there is a lot more stress on the internals. Only an idiot would blow up that engine numerous times... The 2ZZ of course is not as tough as the SR20, which has stock forged internals good for tons of power, but I wouldn't say it's not as tough as a 5SFE. If anything, it's a lot tougher. Go and revv a 5SFE to 8k and you'll see what I mean...

rdyzz · 09-14-2004, 05:34 PM

the 2zz seems to be made weak sure it can rev up to 8000 but so can a 4age or a 4age20v for that matter. beside there are so many blown 2zz's its not funny. the 5sfe has a crappy head design slap a 3sge head on it and it will rev up to 8000 no problem. last i remembered the sr20 rev's quite high 7200 and up. i work at toyota and I hear about how many bugs are in the 2zzge. high reving aluminum engine. honda seems to have alot of those they don't seem to blow as much as 2zz's. the bottom line is the 2zzge is not as good as people think, i mean its toyota but its noting like what toyota had. also i love toyotas but i don't close my eyes to any other companies too. and whats up with toyota's plan of making non rebuildable engines.

p.s. It could also be the drivers but i don't think that many people that road race or autcross are that bad a driving their cars. their there to learn RIGHT.

Clean SE-R · 09-14-2004, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdyzz
the bottom line is the 2zzge is not as good as people think, i mean its toyota but its noting like what toyota had. last i remembered the sr20 rev's quite high 7200 and up.

True.

BTW: SR20's can rev to 7,800 all day....no problem.

Clean SE-R · 09-14-2004, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwanza
If you look at it, it's really a silly comparison... The 2ZZ is a horsepower motor, while the SR20DE and 5SFE are torque motors. Any high-revving alluminim block motor will blow if the drivers are careless, and being they're high-revving, there is a lot more stress on the internals.

What?

The indicated redline in my SE-R is 7,500. fuel cut off is 7,850. On the track it's never below 6K rpm for sustained amounts of time.

Kwanza · 09-15-2004, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdyzz
the 2zz seems to be made weak sure it can rev up to 8000 but so can a 4age or a 4age20v for that matter. beside there are so many blown 2zz's its not funny.

The 4AGE's won't sustain 8k+ rpms on stock internals for long. The rods simply aren't good enough, nor is the stock valvetrain. Either way, Iron block Vs. Alluminum block? The 2ZZGE's head can flow better than B18C5 heads, which can easily make well over 200 hp on stock internals. The 2ZZGE's have been known to live up to 9k rpms and on stockish internals with standalone managment... As much as I love 4AG's... they cannot do that.

Quote:

the 5sfe has a crappy head design slap a 3sge head on it and it will rev up to 8000 no problem. last i remembered the sr20 rev's quite high 7200 and up.

That's a statment of pure ignorance right there... The 5S block will not live at 8k. I've been there and done that. The 5S block is not designed to rev, hence "slapping on" a 3SGE head will make no difference. If you look at the physics, the torque band will shift up, and the power will come down because of the block's oversquared inability to rev. The 3SGE head makes power via revving... the 5S block makes power via Stroke...

Quote:

i work at toyota and I hear about how many bugs are in the 2zzge. high reving aluminum engine. honda seems to have alot of those they don't seem to blow as much as 2zz's. the bottom line is the 2zzge is not as good as people think, i mean its toyota but its noting like what toyota had. also i love toyotas but i don't close my eyes to any other companies too. and whats up with toyota's plan of making non rebuildable engines.

It's the FIRST GENERATION of that type of motor... so there are bound to be kinks, as there were in the 3SGE's with the shims, as there were with the 4AG's and the bottom-end, as there is with everything that moves thousands of times per minute... As for the direct issue of blowing up motors? All high-revving motors based on an alluminum block will blow up if the retard behind the wheel is not careful. There are safety measures (no lift until a certain temp) amougst other things that are designed to electronically protect the engine... and it takes a bit of effort to blow them up.

Quote:

Originally posted by Clean SE-R
What? The indicated redline in my SE-R is 7,500. fuel cut off is 7,850. On the track it's never below 6K rpm for sustained amounts of time.

refer to the parts about forged internals...

The revving issue is for comparison between the 5SFE and 2ZZGE. It's just silly comparing a motor as out-dated as the 5SFE to new technology like the 2ZZGE and say one or the other is a lot better. They do different fricken things people... Even a motor like the SR20DE... it's based off of a turbo motor and is built as such internally with only a few differences. It can rev, yes, but it's not a high-horsepower motor that needs to rev. Pure revving horsepower motors will be more sensitive to breakage at high rpms, but that in no way makes them weaker than iron block motors that usually live at around 4k rpms...

Oh, and just in case you guys are wondering who I am... I run a shop in Nor Cal. During the day, we're a regular smog/repair shop, but in the afternoon, we specialize in import performance. To date, we've built all of the cars in my signature, which are all my personal play cars, and we've built/swapped a ton of other cars (customer cars, personal cars, and track cars). I'm the Toyota guy, my Cousin is the Honda guy, and between us, we've built, raced, and beat around the bush with more than our share of engines... When people with limited knowledge make comparisons like this... it really makes me laugh...

Have fun...

robbie · 09-15-2004, 02:43 AM

good to see someone with alot of experience helping us noobies