(1989 Celica GT-S 3S-GE) Help! No spark usually! - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Leusent · 11-17-2004, 08:42 PM

Hey all,
I'll cut right to the point: My Celica (See model in topic) does not produce a spark about 90% of the time. Sometimes, when it is feeling nice, it will start fine and I can drive it around for seemingly as long as I wish just as long as I don't turn it off. If I do turn it off, it may very well not start again. I can sit an crank it until the battery is dead but if it doesn't wish to start it will not. Then hours, minutes, days later (take your pick) it will fire fine. When I ground the spark wire directly from the coil I do not get a spark. What I know:
A) The resistances in the COIL and IGNITOR seem OK. After testing many other things I replaced both with used pieces from a junkyard.
B) The air gap in the distributor is OK
C) The wires between the ECU, DISTRUBUTOR, and IGNITOR seem to work fine. As well as the connections.
D) The high tension wire seems to be OK. I tried other wires from other WORKING cars with no luck.
E) The resistance of the PICKUP COIL seems to be correct.
D) I cannot seem to get an "IGT SIGNAL FROM ECU" but I have no idea what that means!

If I can get the car going up to operating temperatures I can read the following codes:
12 (RPM SIGNAL): No NE or G signal to ECU within 2 seconds of engine being cranked.
13 (RPM SIGNAL): No NE to ECU when engine speed is above 1,000 RPM
My chilton and haynes manuals agree that the common trouble area is ECU/DISTRIBUTOR.

If anyone could shed any light on what the exact problem might be, it would really help. I would like to avoid running out and buying a new ECU which, probably costs and arm and a leg.

On a side note, about a month and a half ago I accidently plugged the battery in backwards while working on it. (I know this is a crime against my car, but everyone makes mistakes). It never showed any signs of a problem, except a couple of blown fus(e)/(able link)s until now.

--Craig

fredk · 11-17-2004, 09:55 PM

OK Craig, I worked at Toyota in the late 80s and I cant remember all the codes and meanings, now, when you are cranking, is the tach moving up? Here is another quickie test, get the cap off and get a test lite, take a plug wire and hook it to the coils tower and put the other end close to the block somehow, this way the spark has another place to go other than you and a good strong coil will jump a spark from the tower to the dist body so watch out

. Now get someone cranking and ground the clamp end of the testlite and touch the primary/2 small connections on the coil, one will be lit and the other blinking each time a piston comes up, the blinking side may look like a dim bulb if it cant react fast enough, a led works best for this and you should hear a spark fly out of the dangling wire. I have had no power to the coil at times, traced to a bad ign. switch, a loose engine to body ground. If it blinks and looks normal, but no spark at times or skips spark events, the coil is getting ready to pack it in, this is the most common, a corroded dist connector on the wires is least common, if still stumped, go to toyota and see what the code pans out to be, but I cant remember anything ecu related, but hooking up the battery backwards can undo pretty much anything

Leusent · 11-17-2004, 10:24 PM

First off, thanks a lot for your reply fredk!
I am fairly sure without further testing that the Coil isn't getting proper voltage. I was able to get a spark out of the coil when I connected one end to the battery and then alternate sending power (By pop-riveting a bunch of posts in a line to aluminum foil) on the other end. Plus I replaced the coil and that didn't help.
The COIL and IGNITOR are external on this model of car. I did watch the distributor rotor and it is turning.
I made sure the engine was grounded properly by jumping a ground directly from the battery to many other places in the engine compartment while someone turned the key for me. No luck there.
I haven't extensively looked into problems in the ignition switch and I will check there tomorrow. That is an angle I haven't really considered yet.
I have gone to the Toyota Dealership and talked to them. The impression I get from them is that they cannot get any more codes out of the car than I can. I got the feeling that a model as old as mine was in the dark technology-wise. I did put the the meanings of the codes according to my Chilton manual in my first post.
Both mechanics I have gone to for advice have told me they would do exactly what I have done up to this point and would try replacing the entire distributor and then the ECU.
Is there a reasonable chance that distributor is the culprit?
The one real thing that gets me about this is how stupidly intermittent this is. I have gotten the car started, driven it to the store, locked the doors with the car running and come out 15 minutes later with it still running fine. Drive home, park it, turn it off, then try and start it again one hour later, without success.

Pineapple · 11-18-2004, 08:22 AM

Remove the coil and take a closer look. Mine looks fine form the top but the bottom was rusted to pieces.
Check for lose or broken wires. Maybe blown ignitor. Got to junkyard and grab a few to try.

Leusent · 11-18-2004, 09:44 AM

I checked the ignition coil (Not the pickup) physically and I checked the resistances. No wires seem to be loose between any components. I replaced both the ignitor and coil without any luck.

Craig

fredk · 11-18-2004, 08:40 PM

hhhmmm, check the relays and the ign. switch

Leusent · 11-24-2004, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the ideas guys, in the end it was the distributor. I don't know why it was this part (coincidently the last part I changed). The resistances and airgaps were all OK. Murphy's law hard at work I guess....

Craig