Now 7 ignition Coil Packs failed in 2 Years 1zz HELP!
I have an 05 Matrix XR AWD (A/T, DBC, 1zz). We bought the car on 01/07
02/07 while on a trip to mountains, the engine blew (over heated) with 23K miles under warranty toyota replaced short block and reworked the heads.
09/09 had to replace ignition coil #3, 70K miles by Toyota no warranty.
02/10 had to replace ignition coil #1,#2,#4 78K miles (only #1 was truely bad but figured #2 & #3 would die shortly). Aftermarket coils
09/10 had to replace ignition coil #3, 85K miles by Toyota under warranty
03/11 had to replace igniition coil #1, 93K miles, Aftermarket warranty
12/10 I installed a TRD SC and been running the TRD Piggyback ECU.
The pask week I've gone through the wiring harness from the coils, by the injectors to the alternator (didn't break it down alternator to firewall). Didn't find any problems, did re-terminate the coil/ECU ground on the block, removed about a 1 foot section of extra wire for the 12V to #1 coil and spliced it back in. Found a Capacitor (Toyota calls it a condensor) tied off to the 12V system to the coils. It appeared to be in good shape but will replace it anyway. I've checked, with voltmeter, from the coil connectors, with the ignition on, the 12V and ground looks good.
Right now I have no clue as to why I'm frying these coil packs. The spark plugs were replaced at 70K (by dealer) and again when the SC was added (cooler pluges, .032" gap).
Not to the extent that you've seen - a bad coil pack here and there, but not something that keeps popping every several thousands of miles.
Questions: Where the coil on plug units truly faulty? If yes, how was that determined? Do you still have the bad coil on plug units?
These are solid state devices, so there isn't a lot of things that can cause them to fail that often. Since you are seeing this with OEM and aftermarket coils - likely the issue is with the power or signal getting to the coil on plugs.
If the shop has an oscilloscope - they should scope the signals and see what it looks like, coming from the ECM. Also doesn't hurt to scope the power to the coils. If there is an intermittent connection to the coil on plug unit or a noisy signal feeding the powerside and/or signal side - those could cause the coil to prematurely die.
Example cases: I've heard of some generations of VW/Audi vehicles that run through coils even more often than in your case. It was found in many of them to be an intermittent connection from the coil on plug to the wiring harness and signal leakage from the wiring harness itself. Corrosion was getting up there and causing the intermittent signals, signal crosstalk was coming from the harness itself. This caused the coils to fire all at the same time - which under most conditions, you couldn't tell was happening. Eventually, this caused the coils to overheat and produce little to no spark (weak spark). Adding dielectric grease to the connection and shielding the wiring harnesses - brought the coils down to normal operating temps / duty cycles and expected lifespan.
Not to the extent that you've seen - a bad coil pack here and there, but not something that keeps popping every several thousands of miles. Yes I know and hence the problem
Questions: Where the coil on plug units truly faulty? If yes, how was that determined? Moved the coil to another cylinder and the problem moved. Toyota replaced 2. Do you still have the bad coil on plug units? No I do not I should have kept the OEM ones I replaced. The ones under warranty , (1 OEM, 1 Aftermarket) were returned for credit
These are solid state devices, so there isn't a lot of things that can cause them to fail that often. Since you are seeing this with OEM and aftermarket coils - likely the issue is with the power or signal getting to the coil on plugs. I work with industrial control systems and gone through most of the engine compartment wiring harness and addressed a few issues but none serious.
If the shop has an oscilloscope - they should scope the signals and see what it looks like, coming from the ECM. Also doesn't hurt to scope the power to the coils. If there is an intermittent connection to the coil on plug unit or a noisy signal feeding the powerside and/or signal side - those could cause the coil to prematurely die. I have an O-scope but havn't used it on the coils yet. Just checked the 12V and ground with a DVM. Have a new CAP/Condensor for the 12V Power coming and reinforced the grounding for the coils and the ECU (ECU Frame also).
Example cases: I've heard of some generations of VW/Audi vehicles that run through coils even more often than in your case. It was found in many of them to be an intermittent connection from the coil on plug to the wiring harness and signal leakage from the wiring harness itself. Corrosion was getting up there and causing the intermittent signals, signal crosstalk was coming from the harness itself. This caused the coils to fire all at the same time - which under most conditions, you couldn't tell was happening. Eventually, this caused the coils to overheat and produce little to no spark (weak spark). Adding dielectric grease to the connection and shielding the wiring harnesses - brought the coils down to normal operating temps / duty cycles and expected lifespan. Havn't seen any corrosion and all connections look good
See my reply underlined above. I guess my plan is to check the ignition feedback from the coils against the ECU coil signals and make sure there isn't any crosstalk from some where. At the same time I could hook up the DVM on the 12V and record it for any spikes/drops. The thought of using an O-scope on this has crossed my mind but I chose to shake out the engine bay wiring first. Thanks!
That sounds like a tough one to diagnose. Being possibly intermittent doesn't help matters.
I'd go ahead and check for ground loops as well - since you reinforced the ground at one point - can't hurt to double check. The 1ZZ-FE is pretty sensitive to electrical noise, though not sure if this is the root cause of the blown coil issue you are having.
Earlier you mentioned that the engine overheated, was that due to a coolant issue (punched a hole in the radiator or failed waterpump), or from an engine related failure (blown headgasket, etc.)? When you say reworked the head, what work did Toyota do? Wondering if something was done that is exposing the coils to too much heat.
The engine blew a head gasket and warped the block. The thing I noticed about the electrical system there seems to be several places with loop grounding. But on a 12v system I would doubt it would be much of an issue. The only devices that have shielding on them are the O2 sensors (I think). The other night I ground the ECU frame for S&Gs.
What do you think is the best place to check the ECU signals, 12V and feedback? At the coils? Also whats the best why to land the O-scope by stripping back the wire then taping it up when done? Or making some type of test rig between the coil and connector and snooping them there?
See what Toyota did to the engine on 1st post. It went 50K miles with the first set (after the engine blew) and replaced all them. Have replaced 2 more since then.
I'd start at the coil side first, given all that has happened to the car at this point. ECM should be hit next, to rule out a simple connection issue on the ECM. You might be able to backprobe the connectors, if you have thin enough probes to do so.
I'd hate to pierce the wiring insulation, unless I had no recourse. Though there are some pretty fancy ones out there - like these Fluke ones that I was planning to pick up:
Then cap the hole with some silicone sealant to keep out the moisture.
Setting up a breakout block for testing purposes, probably is not a bad idea. Might be able to look up the parts on Digikey or Mouser Electronics and see if they have appropriate ends to fab up one.
Well I have another one going out. The car was missing several times on the way home. No CEL yet and it's intermittent so I'm not sure which Cylinder it is yet. I'm not sure if it is caused by previous damage or my issue hasn't been fix. Will be dragging my O-scope home this weekend and start looking at coil signals, grounds and voltages. CHIT! COIL PACK #7!
Curious how you're determining which coil failed. When I pull codes, OBDII shows all coils faulted. The engine still runs so we know 100% of the coils can't be bad. Toyota then determines which coil(s) failed and charges lots for both their part and labor. Kind of simple to do if you know which coil to replace.
Would seem OBDII would provide that info but it doesn't appear to do so.
Curious how you're determining which coil failed. When I pull codes, OBDII shows all coils faulted. The engine still runs so we know 100% of the coils can't be bad. Toyota then determines which coil(s) failed and charges lots for both their part and labor. Kind of simple to do if you know which coil to replace.
Would seem OBDII would provide that info but it doesn't appear to do so.
How is it running? Is it missing? There is a coil feedback which all four coils come back on the same circuit. I guess it compares it to the ECU firing signal and can determine based upon timing which of them is bad. In your case you could have one coil messing up the feedback or the entire feedback system is messed up. The codes I get, but doesn't always give a code unless it's totally out, will point to the bad one.
The other way, if it is constantly missing, is to remove each coil connector and see what the engine does. If it boggs down more you know that coil is good. If it doesn't change you found the bad coil.
I think I figured it out. The OBDII reader kicks out a P0300 code (general ignition failure) and a P035x code. It also kicks out p0301-P0306 basically saying all coils have registered a misfire problem. Clearly, all coils can't be bad or the engine wouldn't run.
I believe the key is the P035x code. It appears the last digit specifies which coil is bad. I previously had a P0352 code and the dealer replaced coil 2. I now have a P0354 code and I will now replace coil 4.
BWD coils are $85 at O'Reilly with a lifetime warranty. You can get a 90 day warranty part from Rock Auto for $43. However, this appears to be a recurring problem (unfortunate) so I'll spring for the lifetime warranty and eventually stop buying the parts.
Fixed!! Replaced coil 4 in ten minutes, cleared codes, and I'm done.
Dealer charged $229.91 to do this on cylinder 2. There was $110 labor in there for ten minutes of work. Unbelievable!
If you have code P0352, P0354, or P0356 you should do this repair yourself. VERY easy to do.
The coils on the odd cylinders (P0351, P0353, P0355) will be a challenge. Not sure if there's any access from underneath if it's on a lift. If not, some manifold stuff would have to come off for access. Same for replacing that bank of spark plugs, obviously.
Ok the Coil packs are OK. The TRD ECU harness is messed up (broken solder joint?). I had swapped the TRD ECUs (A/T - M/T) and still had the miss (no codes, but flickering lights). So it goes back to a problem a from 3 weeks ago. Thought about making a harness for the TRD ECU and doing away with the TRD adapter for the OEM ECU
There was no doubt about coil pack #6 being bad because it was missing with or with the TRD ECU installed. For S&Gs I had the Greddy EMU installed with no issues. My O-scope testing was inclusive because of the issues I was having with it (my signals would come and go, bad switches just a very old O-scope).
So where am I? Well I ordered an used OEM ECU off e-bay for $60. When it comes in it'll need to be re-flashed by the dealership ($120). Don't know if that will fix my coil pack failures or not. But still cheaper fix than 2 OEM coil packs. Right now I have the GReddy EMU installed but no tuning maps. Will be bumping an old post for help getting MAPS and for help setting up the 5th injector.
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