Did some research and found something interesting

[Bdub215]

Well here's the story i'm looking to buy a XRS be it a Matrix or a corolla. while browsing through autotrader i find this 03 "XRS" for 8K with 112k on the clock. had a auto trans on the column. already i raised a red flag. did another search auto was a option for 03 cool. now i get into it further and i run the VIN through toyota and this bothers me


Division: TOYOTA Model: Matrix Grade: XRS Model Year: 2003

Drive Type: 2WD Body Type: 4Dr. CUV Engine Family: L4 - 1ZZ-FE Transmission: 4AT


XRS and 1zz??? I'm so confused as to how thats possible. if anyone has any insight please let me know. just curious.

[Billiam]

Well, there certainly was an auto option for the XRS in '03, but just that one year. However, the XRS only came with the 2ZZ engine...at least in the states.

Is it possible that perhaps Canada had some different packaging?

[Zembonez]

WOW. 8 grand for an 03 with over 100k? Spooky.

[zythr]

+1 ^ Besides, unless you want the auto tranny that was only available for the '03 model year, why not look at the Pontiac Vibe. Vibe is the same car with different styling. With both Pontiac and the Vibe being discontinued you could get a much better deal than going with the Matrix or Corolla as well.

[Bdub215]

here's the car
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...aptcha=success

it was built in Canada (2T Vin). private sellers make interesting prices what can i say? and i know about the Vibe GT the problem is finding one in decent shape. and i've kinda perferred the matrix' styling to the Vibe's if i had to choose.

Originally Posted by Billiam

Well, there certainly was an auto option for the XRS in '03, but just that one year. However, the XRS only came with the 2ZZ engine...at least in the states.

Is it possible that perhaps Canada had some different packaging?

Originally Posted by Zembonez

WOW. 8 grand for an 03 with over 100k? Spooky.

Originally Posted by zythr

+1 ^ Besides, unless you want the auto tranny that was only available for the '03 model year, why not look at the Pontiac Vibe. Vibe is the same car with different styling. With both Pontiac and the Vibe being discontinued you could get a much better deal than going with the Matrix or Corolla as well.

[Billiam]

The seller mentions the 2ZZ engine in the description...though it looks a bit like a copy-and-paste deal. It does seem to be equipped as an XRS should be. One thing that is wrong, is that all XRS's came with 17" rims. In '03 this was not the case. The XRS could have either the 16" or the 17" rim....this one being the 16" wheel.

[thebarber]

looks like the seller is just wrong....and without a picture of the engine IN the car or the tachometer, you won't be able to tell whether its actually a 2zz in there

btw, the vibe gt never had an auto tranmission option like the xrs did

MOST IMPORTANTLY, don't waste your time/money on an auto xrs....the 4spd auto can't keep the car in the powerband, it robs more hp to the wheels, AND you still need to run 91 octane

[Bdub215]

Originally Posted by thebarber

looks like the seller is just wrong....and without a picture of the engine IN the car or the tachometer, you won't be able to tell whether its actually a 2zz in there

btw, the vibe gt never had an auto tranmission option like the xrs did

MOST IMPORTANTLY, don't waste your time/money on an auto xrs....the 4spd auto can't keep the car in the powerband, it robs more hp to the wheels, AND you still need to run 91 octane

Well I pretty much can guarantee there isn't a 2zz in that particular XRS. Hell it comes up on Toyota's End as a XRS with a 1zz engine and 4spd auto when you run the VIN. Unless something's changed, I'm going with my insider info.

And I only buy manual. If I drive auto its for work or it's a gift. I use premium In all of my cars so that's no biggie.


Sent from my iPhone using Autoguide

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by Bdub215

Well I pretty much can guarantee there isn't a 2zz in that particular XRS. Hell it comes up on Toyota's End as a XRS with a 1zz engine and 4spd auto when you run the VIN. Unless something's changed, I'm going with my insider info.

And I only buy manual. If I drive auto its for work or it's a gift. I use premium In all of my cars so that's no biggie.


Sent from my iPhone using Autoguide

well, the 5spd manual on the 1zz is junk anyways

if you're putting 91 in cars that don't require it, you're throwing your money away

[fishexpo101]

The VIN looks right - as I've been looking at a 1st gen AUTO Matrix XRS for the Wifey (killed the last two manual transaxled cars I've had).

Not all the decoders out there have all the fields populated or with the correct info (sometimes changes from year to year). So the VIN is OK, but do the pics show a 2003 Matrix XRS with a 4-speed automatic transaxle and 2ZZ-GE engine? Hard to say - no clean pics of engine and cut & paste description.

What I can say for sure - definitely 1st gen Matrix, likely an XR or XRS trim (factory body kit), 16" OEM alloys and not the upgraded 17" XRS optional, as mentioned in the description. Can't tell if there are rear drums or discs - no straight on shot in the pics. If it has 4-wheel discs, could be an XRS or Matrix M Theory variant - also assuming that it didn't see a disc brake swap.

Possible that it has the 2ZZ-GE, as if you zoom in onto the tach, you can just make out the redline of 7800 RPM - which is right for the automatic transaxle 2ZZ-GE variant.

Don't discount the automatic Matrix XRS - between that or a Matrix XR with automatic - I'd take the XRS in a heartbeat. That said, if there was a 6-speed variant - I'd take that over the 4-speed. Keep in mind that the 4-speed auto is a different series than the ones used in the 1ZZ-FE powered Matrix. Those use the A246E transaxles, which were geared a little differently than the ones used in the 7th and 8th gen Corolla A245E transaxles. The XRS uses the U240E transaxle - little beefier unit, holds more power as long as you keep the fluid cool.

Big heart ache, as mentioned, was the gearing and spacing between gears. Sure you'll hit lift, but as soon as it up shifts, it falls off lift by around 1000RPMs or so, so you have to climb back up there to hit lift again. So periods of fun with periods of trying to mat the pedal to get the revs back up, but atleast you have lift.

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by fishexpo101

Don't discount the automatic Matrix XRS - between that or a Matrix XR with automatic - I'd take the XRS in a heartbeat. That said, if there was a 6-speed variant - I'd take that over the 4-speed. Keep in mind that the 4-speed auto is a different series than the ones used in the 1ZZ-FE powered Matrix. Those use the A246E transaxles, which were geared a little differently than the ones used in the 7th and 8th gen Corolla A245E transaxles. The XRS uses the U240E transaxle - little beefier unit, holds more power as long as you keep the fluid cool.

Big heart ache, as mentioned, was the gearing and spacing between gears. Sure you'll hit lift, but as soon as it up shifts, it falls off lift by around 1000RPMs or so, so you have to climb back up there to hit lift again. So periods of fun with periods of trying to mat the pedal to get the revs back up, but atleast you have lift.

i have to disagree, generally. if i had the choice, id take the 4spd 1zz....you'll have better fuel economy and you can run 87 octane. the auto 2zz is slow.....pretty sure a 5spd 1zz is quicker...an auto xrs is only going to put down about 135whp/98wtw in lift....a 5spd 1zz will likely be about 113 whp/wtq out of the box.

ive seen an auto celica gt-s in action....it was painfully slow

and another issue is that the auto xrs won't run to fuel cut....itll shift into 2nd at about 7500rpm so it lands waaay out of lift in 2nd

theres a very good reason they stopped making the auto xrs

[fishexpo101]

Interesting - must be the gross variations between vehicles within a model year. When we had our U240E transaxle 2003 Matrix XRS (~ 6 months before straight up trade for the 6-speed, long story, dealership reached out to me) - it pulled significantly on a 4-speed Matrix XR and still ahead of a 5-speed variant, depending on how they launched on a dig.

Out of the hold, yeah, it was painfully slow - but once it got up there in RPMS, no problems. Also was not an issue to climb up those 1000 RPMs or so - just a pause or two and it would hit lift. Never had an issue of it short shifting on me when left in D, manually shifted - it would bang up against the fuel cut.

I'd agree on fuel mileage - you definitely lose an easy 15% or more, depending on how often you touched lift. But the price difference between premium and regular gas was only a couple bucks per tank - just cut out one coffee a week to make up for it.

Gasoline quality also plays a huge role in performance, I found that some stations consistently gave me more power and others, better fuel economy. There were times, that between tanks of gas - it felt like the car was pulling a boat anchor, other times - felt like it lost 500lbs. Weird.

[zythr]

Research I've done on both the Vibe and the Matrix is the disappointment of how cheap looking the interior is especially around the Radio/HVAC system. Some of that silver plastic looks glued on and easily scratched/damaged, very uncharacteristic and of course disappointing of Toyota (and GM as well).