2003 Matrix XRS concerns before buying...

[NeatO]

Hi everyone! I'm new to this board and hope that I am posting in the correct place. If not, please feel free to lead me in the right direction!

Anyway, I have been in the market for a new car for sometime and the other day, I received a phone call from my local dealership about a 2003 Matrix XRS with 25,000 miles on it, loaded for $15,000. I was sold and ready to buy it when after some inquiry, I found that the first owner had burned out its original clutch (again, within the first 25,000 miles of ownership!).

My concern is this: If the first owner was able to burn out the clutch so quickly, how much damange was he able to do to the engine? Part of me is trying to rationalize and say that the engine is supposed to be driven hard so it is unlikely any serious damange to the engine was done. The catch is that the car was a lease and is certified used. Plus, the car would come with the 3-yr Toyota warranty.

However, I can't help but be concerned regardless. $15,000 for a used car is still a lot, especially for one with engine damage (although again, it is not known if any significant damage was done!). Furthermore, three years may not be enough for engine problems to arise. This is a major investment for myself and I am hoping that I will be able to hold on to this car for at least 10 years if not longer!

If anyone has any ideas, please share! I appreciate any and all responses!

[REN69]

If the clutch was burnt out by the first owner, chances are this was a rookie at driving standard, I've heard of people burning out new clutches because they just cannot get the foot co-ordination that it takes to drive standard.

I don't see any damage being done to the motor, other than maybe the motor being over-revved, but then again that's what rev-limiters are for. A clutch is just like any other part in a car basically.. your alternator burns out.. you change it, your starter burns out.. you change it, your clutch burns out whether its got the max mileage on it or it was used improperly.. you change it. Only thing I could suggest is to get the dealership to do a transmission fluid change, in case there's excessive particles from the clutch in it.

[mistamatrix]

NeatO, welcome to TN!

I'm going to give that previous owner the benefit of the doubt and not blame his skill level in driving a manual. There are numerous complaints (present company included) about the 2003 XRS having a weak clutch. I learned how to drive in a manual and I've been a licensed driver for 15 yrs. Some of the other 'victims' have been driving longer than I have.

Mine gave out at 53000km (approx. 33000 miles) and I had mine replaced w/ an aftermarket clutch. Some believe that the clutch in the XRS (borrowed from the Celica) is too weak to be used in the heavier Matrix XRS.

Find out what it was replaced with. But more than likely it was replaced w/ another OEM clutch. That's the only thing I'd be concerned with. I wouldn't worry about engine damage. It should be fine.

Here's a good read on the issue: click me

[NeatO]

Thanks mistamatrix I appreciate the link to that site! I read just a few of the 7 pages of responses about clutch issues with the matrix and it seems like this problem is not so uncommon. Read a bunch of entries by people who have been driving manuals for some time now with no problems whatsoever and then, hop into their Matrix XRS and have to have their clutches replaced at around same mileage as the car I am looking at (25,000).

After reading, I am now not too concerned about engine damage but now the clutch! Clutch replacement will be an additional $400 (or more!) and even though I know it was replaced recently, who's to say the problem will not arise again, as it was more than likely replaced with an OEM clutch... unless perhaps they are now being refitted with a Matrix-specific clutch instead of a Celica clutch?

So I guess I now have better bargaining chips to lower the $15,000 asking price? If the clutch were to go out again within the 3yr certified used warranty period, would it be covered?

I guess I'm just concerned and a little upset now because I simply don't know how to approach this when I talk to the dealer. On the one hand, I did really like the car; the six gears were awesome (even though at 60mph, the engine was still spinning at 3000 rpm ?!), the A/C felt great (something that my current car does not have!), and I just liked the feel and composition of the car. However, if I'm going to have to keep replacing the clutch, is it worth the $15,000? Or even $13,000 if I can get the price that low?

Thanks for everything and I may post more frequently as I get closer to buying time!

--NeatO

[slipknot490]

Is this only on the 03 or am I going to need to look for this soon with my 04?

[NeatO]

Apparently, the problem seems to be primarily with the 2003 Matrix XRS. Not sure why just the 2003 but that's how it seems.

I would check out the website that mista posted the link to and read the responses as well.

--NeatO

[mistamatrix]

slipknot, the majority of sufferers are 03 XRS owners although there are a few 04 XRS owners who put themselves on the list as well as 'off the record' complaints on the side by 04 owners who've had occasional slipping but not totally toasting the clutch. If Toyota hasn't corrected the clutch problem then I could definitely see more reported clutch failures from 04's in the coming mths.

So I guess I now have better bargaining chips to lower the $15,000 asking price? If the clutch were to go out again within the 3yr certified used warranty period, would it be covered?

I'm not sure how well of a bargaining tool this could be. It's worth a shot I suppose. Tell them to read the link themselves! Or get them to put in a TRD clutch then you'd pay their asking price!
Some of those guys have lucked out by getting the clutch replaced under warranty. But only a handful of them. A majority, including myself, was given the 'wear and tear' excuse and wouldn't honour it. Had the 'uprising' happened when my clutch was killed I would have approached my dealer w/ that link.

Feel free to ask any more questions you have!

[NeatO]

Well I guess in that case, the sad truth is that I simply cannot justify paying $15,000 for a car that I'd have to be replacing the clutch on every couple of years. I've been reading reports of people buying ACT or RPS clutches and having their problems resolved but that's another $400-$500 and when I'm already paying closer to $16,000 (with taxes and other fees), I just don't know if it's worth it.

Sorry if I'm rambling but I simply don't know what to do. On the one hand, I could go back to Civics or Corollas or some other safe, reliable, incredibly boring car; at least I'd have the peace of mind of knowing that it'd be trouble-free. On top of that, I'd be saving money on gas as well, since I wouldn't have to buy premium gas (!!).

However, I really did like the car and even if it's possible that I could get this car for $12-$13k, then maybe I could swing it. Does this sound like a reasonable price or should I not even bother wasting my time?

Thanks for all your help!

--NeatO

[mistamatrix]

Can't help you on US pricing as the range for used XRS' is a little different up here.

I was one of those guys that had the RPS clutch installed. That's why I was saying if you could get the dealer to put in a TRD clutch (or any stronger aftermarket clutch) then it'd be worth it I suppose.

Aside from clutch woes, it is a fun-to-drive car! I swear it is! Especially after 6200rpms!

[slipknot490]

Well, I'm sure they aren't going to put another defective clutch back in your car. As mistamatrix said, they seem to have fixed the problems with the 03. So I think the replacement will hold up the same as an 04 clutch. Mine is an 04 and right under 26,000 miles and never had a slip or anything. My wife smoked it enough to smell it once, but other than that, it has had no hard use.

[phil]

As far as I know, Toyota will only install original parts.
Any aftermarket parts will void the warranty.

[mistamatrix]

It's odd in Toronto. Several dealerships were willing to install my RPS clutch and warranty the workmanship for 1yr. But they won't install lowering springs.

[cosmicbluexrs]

more $ for clutch install. + you might want a free alignment from them after, so they don't want the hassle.