Clutch Damage

[acrylucs]

So i have just gotten a new Toyota XRS. its pseudo my car and i learnt to drive stick in it. I had done about 2/3 hours with an instructor in manual, so i was not a total neophyte. However, i live in montreal, and right in the center, by McGill, are steep hill, ie, Mt Royal, sorta like san fransisco. Now, i'm not very good and getting the car going, or at least i wasn't, and starting in a 6 speed is difficult. On hill starts, i need to use the emergency break, since half depressing the clutch doesn't hold the car. but, on steep hills i need to rev the engine to close to 3000 revs, and i've accidently gone up to 4000 maybe once or twice.
And then the smell. Its really worrying, cause this is my first car and i dont want to do damage. It only has 700 odd miles on it, and i feel like i'm beating it up allready. i practice a lot to get smooth starts going, which i'm now decent at.

So:
1)am i doing damage that i should be worried about
2) as a general question, how high do you normally rev the engine when engaging the clutch?

Thanks

[xrs22]

Use the emergency brake first then get into gear. Especially if those hills are that high. I've burned my clutch a couple of time and gets pretty friggin' stinky. I'ts just a high revving machine is all, i still have to get used to it even after a year. Just start off slow and chech your rpm's and learn it for future reference. Then mod the shit out of it.

[mistamatrix]

That's the smell of a burning clutch. Too much slipping is not good for the clutch. A noob using a stick shift on steep hills will eventually lead to premature clutch wear. The upside is it'll force you to learn and get used to the engagement point and when the clutch engages.

[911xrs]

Yes, you will be smelling the clutch once in a while. I have a 2003 xrs and when get out of Montreal's indoor parking's, you just got to rev it up a bit and use the hand brake to prevent the car from rolling back. You can practice this on Camillien-Houde hill on the Mont-Royal. This is a great practice area in the wee hours of the morning.I have 54,000 km on the original clutch and it will be due for an overhaul soon. First clutch that I will change in the 30 years that I have been driving a stick, and I run my cars to the ground 450-500,000 km.

[ksbrace]

I smelled the clutch on my 04 XR while jockying in a crowded, sloped driveway, but only after I had made several very gradual starts and low-speed up-hill creeps. Because I had to go very slowly up a hill (in gravel, with other vehicles inches away from me), I had to continually slip the clutch, and in half a minute I started to smell it and had to sit and let it cool for a couple minutes before proceeding. For a normal start on an open road, even if the hill is steep, you should be able to get the clutch engaged in one or two seconds and the total amount of slippage shouldn't heat the clutch up enough to smell it.

If we dig into the physics, we see that work = force times distance. So the heat dumped into the clutch plates is equal to the slip force times the amount of slip. For a given rate of acceleration you have a certain fixed slip force. At lower revs you generate less heat (because the slip distance is less), and as you engage more slowly you generate more heat (because the slip distance increases). So high revs engaging very slowly generates the most heat. The worst possible thing for clutch heat is to rev it high and ride the clutch so it slips continually (to hold a hill). It can also get really hot in stop and go traffic up a hill, because the heat from many starts in a row builds up.

So for minimal heat, keep your revs low as you start, but not so low that you stall. So the trick is to figure out the lowest revs you can maintain while still feeling secure that you won't stall. On a steeper hill you will need higher revs. For a particular hill, those with less experience will have to keep the revs higher, those with more experience (or natural coordination) will be able to start with lower revs. And never slip the clutch to hold a hill -- Use your brake for that.

[acrylucs]

this was back in june or so. i'm pro at hill starts now. but a pseudo related question. when driving in slippery conditions...low gear right? as in 4/5...so as not to spin the wheels?

[ksbrace]

I've been driving in snow for a long time (7 winters in Pittsburgh, 13 near Boston) with 3 different manual transmission vehicles (1 rear, 2 front wheel drive). A good rule for slippery conditions is to shift to a higher gear a little sooner than you might normally. This helps prevent you from accidentally spinning your wheels, since the engine has less power at low revs and the torque to the wheels is reduced. Of course, a very skilled driver can avoid spinning the wheels by simply not pushing the gas pedal too hard from one moment to the next, but practicing such moderation is much easier if you pick a higher gear -- Even if you do push the gas pedal down hard you aren't likely to spin out.

[Salsa03]

In winter driving, do the same thing you do in summer for changing gears, but instead of jumping directly on the gas pedal during the gear changing, wait until you have engaged your gear and then get on the gas slowly.... that's if you feel unsure about your winter manual driving skills

[Frank@toronto]

Montreal is not a place to start learning how to use a clutch.

Those hills in Westmount are steep.

Find a buddy who can guide you into it.

[Salsa03]

At least he doesn't live in Sherbrooke... now that's one place where you DON'T want to own a manual tranny!