no crank, battery full charge

[Kidron]

I have a 2004 Matrix 5 speed manual with an unusual problem. Periodically it will not even try to crank. Previously I had the problem and the dealer replaced the safety switch on the clurch pedal. However, while the symptoms are the same as before I dont think it is the switch since when I do try to start and turn the key, the lights in the dash will go out and I can cycle them by pushing in and out on the clutch pedal.

I can turn on the head lights which are full brilliance and try to start. There is a slight click somewhere in the dash, but there is no sound from the starter and the lights do not dim.

I can push the car and pop the clutch and it starts immediately. After starting in this manner the starter works fine for anywhere from a week to a couple of months before acting up again. Most times the problem occurs after the car had been sitting parked for a week or more as in the airport parking lot. However, it has occurred a couple of times when it has just been sitting for 30 minutes or so while shppping at Walmarts.

I have had it towed into the dealers twice and each time the car has started immediately after the tow truck has dropped it off, which suggests that just shaking it around fixes the problem. It has been left with the dealer for several weeks and he says it has started every time while on his lot. The mechanics have checked all the electrical connections and say they are fine. A mechanic has never been able to observe it when it is dead.

I have an automatic battery charger and when it will not start in the driveway I have attached it and within three or four minutes it shuts off indicating that the battery is fully charged. I can push the car and get it started, then immediately shut it off and restart it 10 or 15 times without any problem of running down the battery.

Has anyone else experienced this problem and if so, what was the fix?

[ksbrace]

I have not had this problem, but let's think it through. The starter uses too much current for the ignition switch to handle, so the ignition switch (turned to start) just powers a circuit that trips a larger switch under the hood, and that larger switch is called the starter solenoid. If it is flakey that might explain what you are seeing. But you said that you hear a click somewhere when you turn the key, and a click is what you would expect to hear from a working starter solenoid. Your observation that turning the key to start makes the dash lights go out means that the ignition switch itself is working (that, and the click of the solenoid). And the fact that your headlights do not dim when you are trying to start means the starter is not drawing current. That leaves a couple possibilities I think: The wiring from the solenoid to the starter, or the starter itself. I would guess they checked the wiring. That leaves the starter. To prove this you would need to locate the starter, and the next time it happens, get out and tap the starter gently, and see if that makes it work.

[greywolf]

It sounds like one winding on the starter motor is open. The click means the solenoid is working. If the solenoid contact was bad, the motor would never spin. If the commutator contact for the open winding falls such that it contacts one of the motor brushes, it won't spin only at that position. If the motor is turned a bit, it will contact a complete winding and work with a bit less power and will spin past the bad contact rather than just sit there. Since it usually works, the open winding scenario would fit the circumstances. A new starter motor would seem to be in order.

[zziksdotcom]

yup i had this exact problem with my 05 XR !

do you still have your stock battery installed?
if so that may be your culprit.

i had the exact same symptoms runs fine for a while , try to start it the next day .... no crank . everything else works radio windows lighting all good and 100% but no crank.

Im an entertainment electrican so im used to weird problems occuring exactlly when you don't want them to .
this problem had been happening for a while and was starting to grind my last nerve.

Its 3:30 am and im stuck at work with a what appears to be a dead battery but really isnt .
fed up with the problem i call my buddies from work in to help me solve the problem

we jump started the car and get the engine running , we unplug the + from the battery ..

engine is still running . OKay the alternator is good.

I breakout my multimeter and test the battery it shows 12+ . all looks good.
we shut off the engine , and start it up again , it slowlly cranks to a start.
This got me thinking . what if the battery is defective?

we tried swapping batteris between my car and my buddies XB then tired to start my buddies XB with my weird battery .
his car did the exact same thing mine was doing.

bingo.


we put everything back together. and i got home with no problems
the next day . i went to the auto parts store and had the battery checked
turns out the battery was labled 550 CCA ( cold cranking amps ) the test proved it had less than 300 CCA
so i got the largest CCA battery that would fit ( 800 CCA ).
since then
The car drives like a dream.

my advice:
change out the battery , and get one with more than 550 cold cranking amps .


hope that solves your problem

Zz...

[Your Uncle Moe]

I have the same exact problem. Im going to change out my starter as soon as I buy it tommorrow. I bougth a brand new battery and gave in my replacement for NO reason.

[Kidron]

Last week I had to take my Echo in for the 30,000 mile service. My wife drove the Matrix to take me home. After we had dropped off the Echo and we got to the parking lot, the Matrix would not start. This is the first time that this has happened while at the dealers. They had a mechanic come out to the car and he spent some time laying on his back feeling under the dash.

He eventually asked me to turn the key to try to start the engine and it started OK. Then with further fiddling with wires ask me to try again .... It would not start.

His conclusion was that it was the switch on the clutch pedal, however, not the one they replaced the first time. He explained that on the Matrix there are TWO defeat switches on the clutch pedal. One which is activated as soon as the pedal start to be depressed and the other when the pedal is fully depressed. If the lower one is bad, the lights on the dash will not go out and the starter will not be energized. If the upper switch is bad, the lights on the dash will go out, but the starter will still not be energized.

I am not sure I understand why the two switches are necessary. But they have replaced the upper switch and over the last week it has started every time. Of course before they did anything it would start OK for several weeks at a time. I'll post again in a couple of weeks if everything seems to be fixed.

[Tercel GTS]

It seems the starters on your cars are a brand new design. I tried looking up the solenoid and found no parts available.

[Your Uncle Moe]

The starter I have is on a 96. I dont think thats considered new.

Anyways, I got a new Starter. Lets see how it goes tommorrow. Install looks traight foward but Im sure Ill find a way to fuck it up.

Godspeed.