I hope most of you know that by using ethanol in your car you are getting worse gas milage than non-ethanol fuel. Fuel with 10% ethanol causes a decrease in MPG by 5%-10%! If you can get gas without ethanol use it! Calculate how much you spend per mile and you will see that fuel with ethanol is bad compared to fuel without ethanol. Also it takes 5 gallons of gas to produce 1 gallon of ethanol and ethanol has less energy per gallon!
The whole point of ethanol is to reduce foreign oil dependancy. It does actually burn cleaner as well.
However, making ethanol from corn is horribly inefficient as you mentioned. Cellulotic ethanol production is just starting to kick off and is a far superior and much more efficient way of producing ethanol.
The whole point of ethanol is to reduce foreign oil dependancy. It does actually burn cleaner as well.
However, making ethanol from corn is horribly inefficient as you mentioned. Cellulotic ethanol production is just starting to kick off and is a far superior and much more efficient way of producing ethanol.
Ethanol from cellulous will be a much better product and be producted more efficiently like you mentioned. Right now using corn actually makes us more dependant on foriegn oil since we use more oil to produce ethanol than we would if we used no ethanol. Also, the exhaust from corn or rapeseed based ethanol is actually more damageing to the ozone layer than burning fossil fuels. The effects of fossil fuels are indirect in CO2, the effect from ethanol directly damages the ozone layer. Ethanol from sugar cane does not effect the ozone layer and cellulous should not either.
The overall idea of ethanol is ok, the problem is that we expanded an experiment to excessive usage without consideration of the negative effects and damaging impact on society. The next generation versions of ethanol are what should have been released for general usage.
I had no idea that ethanol was actually worse mpg-wise than gasoline, just another reason to not jump on the bandwagon for this alternative fuel. Hydrogen anyone?!
Haha, hydrogen is a scam too IMO. Why would we go with hydrogen vs electric? Lets take a look. To get hydrogen you start with what? Electricity and water (electrolysis), then you compress the hydrogen into a tank just to later recombine it with oxygen to make electricity again to power an electric motor. This not only requires a hugely expensive fuel cell, but also an entire hydrogen fueling infrastructure when what do we already have in every single home in the US and most of the world? An outlet to charge a battery...
The only benefit of going to hydrogen fuel cells is that you don't have to deal with a battery which are pretty darn recyclable anyways. I'm not sure how easy it is to recycle or maintain a fuel cell, but considering the initial cost I wouldn't want to deal with it. So really, where is the benefit?
yeah, the point of ethanol mixtures isnt to improve mpg, its to reduce our demand on external fuel sources .... ethanol mixtures definitely decrease gas mileage, unfortunately
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I read in National Geographic that if you took all the food crops in the U.S. and used them to grow corn to produce ethanol then you would only cover about 4% of the demand for gas nationwide
- A vehicle running E85 may get up to 10% less MPG, however because E85 is generally anywhere from $0 cents to a buck cheaper you net result is it cost less per mile to run, thus the savings.
- That 10% ethanol lend keeps your gas prices down by 27 to 29 cents.
-Corn used for ethanol is field corn, used to feed livestock. Most ethanol plants also produce corn syrup (food). Ethanol production also results in distillers grain and gluten, used to feed livestock.
- Ethanol production only uses the starch. as of 2006, one bushel of corn produces 2.7 Gallons of ethanol AND 11 and a half pounds of gluten feed, 3 pounds of gluten meal and over 1 and a half pounds of corn oil. Since 2006, there have been many advancements to make this more efficient, however these are the figures I have.
- 2004, 5, 6 and 7 each set records for corn production and ethanol used less than 10 percent of it, yet we still have farms actually paid NOT to produce or worse, farms facing closure for financial reasons.
- A 4 dollar box of cereal has 19 cents worth of corn.
- in 2005, Ethanol resulted in 4.4 billion dollars in salaries and reduce foreign oil dependency by 143.3 million barrels.
- Ethanol is 105 octane, which reduces ping and results in an engine running smoother.
0 Ethanol has a lower ignition point. Rather than one big "explosion" it continues to burn through the whole piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. This also results in the engine running much cooler.
Why do I have all these facts. No, I do not work in the industry, I am a local business man. I have a 2001 Taco 4dr and due to work put 3 to 4 tanks a week. When we hit 3.50, I started to look at the forums for a solution (yotatech and Customtacos, I just found this one) and neither had reliable answers.
Walking into the post office one day, I was confronted by a LaRouche who said the ethanol industriy was killing more people than Hitler. Having invoked Godwins law, I looked at his literature and decided to contact some of the source myself, primarily universities in Minnisota and Iowa. I also looked at web sites from both sides. This resulted in the facts above.
Since gas here is now at 3.95 and E85 is at 2.99, I realize a saving of about 54 cents per gallon since I converted my Taco to FlexFuel about 4 months ago. It has also never run smoother. A month ago I converted my wifes Mazda and she is among those that have not lost any mileage. The facts, along with my real world results have neagted the naysayers.
Is it the solution, maybe not however remeber, the internal combustion engine was originally designed for alchol, which Henry Ford prefered. It wasn't until Rockefeller ws oil production (gas) from has looking for a use for the waste product that resulted in hs oil busness.
Haha, hydrogen is a scam too IMO. Why would we go with hydrogen vs electric? Lets take a look. To get hydrogen you start with what? Electricity and water (electrolysis), then you compress the hydrogen into a tank just to later recombine it with oxygen to make electricity again to power an electric motor. This not only requires a hugely expensive fuel cell, but also an entire hydrogen fueling infrastructure when what do we already have in every single home in the US and most of the world?
And don't forget terrible fuel density. In order to carry enough hydrogen to travel as far as a typical tank of gas you'd have to make the entire vehicle a hydrogen carrier. No matter what, range will always suck. So if you hydrogen lovers want it so badly, get used to pulling over every 100 miles or so to fill up. Also, what Daox said about infrastructure is absolutely true. Estimates vary, but the cost to convert the entire nation from gasoline to hydrogen is in the tens of trillions of dollars. Suffice it to say, if we started conversion today it would take several expensive decades to make the switch. Bullshit. The modern industrial age would never have occurred if not for the high energy content of petroleum distillates (ie., plane flight). Summary? Keep up the research into alternatives, but in the mean time drill, baby, drill!
TrailDust
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2008 Highlander Base 4WD
2002 Avalon XL
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I read in National Geographic that if you took all the food crops in the U.S. and used them to grow corn to produce ethanol then you would only cover about 4% of the demand for gas nationwide
What is the best thing to use for ethanol? I heard pure sugar was the best, and peaches is this true?
Sugarcane produces four times more ethanol per acre than corn can produce. But again, the amount of carbon producing-energy and carbon-producing products needed to make sugarcane (or corn) and ethanol (ie., fertilizer for crops, ethanol distillation) produces as much carbon dioxide in the end as fossil fuels.
TrailDust
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2008 Highlander Base 4WD
2002 Avalon XL
1987 Suzuki Samurai 4X4 - Treading where no Jeep can follow....
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Ethanol = BAD MPG!
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