Piggyback vs. ECU

[supra-lover]

Hey there,

Ive done a quick search, couldnt really find what I was looking for. I want to know, if Iam planning decent mods, eg. Rebuild Engine, bigger turbs, what is better, a piggyback system or a full blown system like an PowerFC?

Down in Australia, (where I reside), with my old S13, I went to a well-known tuner, and had better results than with my old PowerFC which was also tuned. I just got my Supra, so I dont have too much experience, whats the best upgrade? If anyone has any experiences, please post.

Thanks.

My car:
http://www.garagepoint.com/supralover

[bgrieger]

You can always tune more efficiently with a standalone than a piggyback...it really depends on what you have done as to whether it is worth the money or not. For a mildly upgraded car, probably not. For a dyno queen or very heavily modified car, a standalone will give you that little bit more flexibility that you will likely be able to take advantage of.

[SuprAdam]

+1 for standalone.

Last year I dealt with piggybacks and it drove me nuts. It was more complicated running all the piggy backs than to use a full standalone EMS. S-afc, maf-t, ebc and wideband, just gets to messy and gauges everywhere...Now all there is is one ecu and a laptop.

[Jeeves]

It really depends. For 'a bigger turbo' and a built motor a stand alone is far from required. When you get to things like 1000cc injectors (227% Larger than Stock) and things like that Stand Alone is definately a viable option.

For most cases either something like an Emanage (what I'd consider an Advanced Piggyback) or a good piggyback combo (S-AFC/VPC, etc.) is just fine. It all depends on how far you're going to go. There are plenty of Mk4 owners with not too many mods making 600whp.

My setup for instance:
HKS VPC
ApexI S-AFC 2
ApexI AVC-R
ZT-2 Wideband
+ Few other tweaks here and there.

It's a wirey mess, but there's very little to deal with and it's a proven setup.

[SuprAdam]

I just never liked the scaling and what it does for your timing. None of the piggybacks can control timing aside from emanage ultimate. (i dont think regular emanage does?)

[supra-lover]

So the Standalone would be probably the best thing right now. Ive heard mixed things about the Emanage. Down in Australia, its around 1K around from the FC, so it isnt too bad.

Iam not planning a 10 sec car, or any of the sort, just a comfortable daily driver, that has enough power for a quick fang once in a while. I want to make more than my s13 (200rwkw), so Iam thinking the standalone/piggyback is the best way to go?

[bgrieger]

If you can go standalone for 1k and have experience with tuning them I'd do it that way in a heartbeat. Most piggyback arrangements will cost you near that.

[SuprAdam]

Originally Posted by bgrieger

If you can go standalone for 1k and have experience with tuning them I'd do it that way in a heartbeat. Most piggyback arrangements will cost you near that.

Agreed.

As long as you can understand what you are doing and can do your own tuning/maps than standalone is the best route to go for a 100% reliable car. That way you can control and see what is going on with EVERYTHING at all times.

It is also not for the faint at heart, so know what you are doing before going this route.

[Jeeves]

The emanage itself does have the ability to control timing and in the 7M's is more reliable than the ultimate. It's tried and true.

[newCSbeliever]

standalone is the way to go. it is so much more versitile IF you buy the right one and IF you know what youre doing to it. im not sure if SCT has products available for toyota, but its worth checking out, as its a great product. www.sct.com

also, the standalone system is a whole lot more effective if you have a dyno and lab scope available. for tuning shift points and what not.

[Jeeves]

Originally Posted by newCSbeliever

standalone is the way to go. it is so much more versitile IF you buy the right one and IF you know what youre doing to it. im not sure if SCT has products available for toyota, but its worth checking out, as its a great product. www.sct.com

also, the standalone system is a whole lot more effective if you have a dyno and lab scope available. for tuning shift points and what not.

The website you linked goes to a school's website. The link you're probably looking for is this one, http://www.sctflash.com/ . They are also strictly Ford and they don't even offer a standalone ECM device. They tune Ford ECM's that are flashable.

If you take a look at 7MPower.com, it would say that standalones aren't the way to go. The top two alone, are done just with VPC/AFC combo's, and there are only two standalones in the whole Top 10. The S-AFC/VPC/Boost Controller is one of the most tried and true setups out there and has proven itself time and time again.

[SuprAdam]

Originally Posted by Jeeves

The website you linked goes to a school's website. The link you're probably looking for is this one, http://www.sctflash.com/ . They are also strictly Ford and they don't even offer a standalone ECM device. They tune Ford ECM's that are flashable.

If you take a look at 7MPower.com, it would say that standalones aren't the way to go. The top two alone, are done just with VPC/AFC combo's, and there are only two standalones in the whole Top 10. The S-AFC/VPC/Boost Controller is one of the most tried and true setups out there and has proven itself time and time again.

But keep in mind there are hundreds of mk3's with mega horsepower that aren't on that site.

But yes since most of us are cheap and lazy, piggy backs are the best way to go. Why re-invent the wheel eh?

[newCSbeliever]

youre right about the SCT being strictly ford, i used the software once on a mustang GT and found it to be very precise and powerfull, i was just under the impression they offered a variety of products for different manufacturers based on hearsay.

[Jeeves]

Like I said, they don't even offer a standalone. It's all stuff to flash the ECM.

[rocketracing]

just a quick correction, the blue emanage has an optional ignition harness for adjusting timing.