Ethanol in Virginia - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

jsbenami · 04-27-2006, 01:34 PM

I have noticed all over Northern Va, most gas stations going to 10% or 15% Ethanol. I was told that Ethanol corrodes and swells rubber inside older engines. Would my 92 Supra Turbo react adversely to 10% Ethanol? If so what is the degradation period? Months, years? If anyone has expertise in this please let me know. Some of you mid-westerners may have been running Ethanol in your Supras for a good many years and might know something I don't. Thanks.

Jonathan

TcmaBoy · 04-27-2006, 02:51 PM

10% to 15% ethanol is the standard summer blend. Your engine won't know the difference. For the mix to be an issue you need to be running an fuel that is mainly alcohol. If you start running ethanol or methanol based race fuels, or E-85 then you may start to encounter wear issues in your combustion chambers.

jsbenami · 04-27-2006, 08:33 PM

I've heard of a few stations doing E85, but most are reporting 10%....Especially Exxon. Guess they 3 billion wasn't making enough profits so they had to water things down. Ethanol is not a normal summer blend up in this area. Its the first time I've ever seen it posted at gas stations. But its good to know that 10% won't do too much damage. I'll stay away from E85 which is 85% gas 15% alchohol.....or is it 85% alchohol? In any case, there is no greater than 15% here, can't be. Many stations do appear to be running out of gas, which is scary. Just wait unitl we bomb that Iranians

TcmaBoy · 04-27-2006, 08:42 PM

MTBE has been banned now. That is why you are seeing ethanol in your summer blend.

gideon1331 · 04-27-2006, 09:21 PM

The standard 10% ethanol wont harm you engine, although it may drop mileage 1-2MPG. I continuously get gas in states that use MTBE and my home state which is on ethanol and theres no performance difference.

Ethanol usually only causes problems with the fual system when it is in high amounts. Hence the E85 vehicles (which when used with E85) had reports of fuel system corrosion.

rocketracing · 04-28-2006, 08:53 AM

There are a few other problems to E-85: other than the cylinder washdown you have to use more of it because it does not like to burn, the terrible fumes and its hell to get started during the winter. The only good thin i can say for E-85 is becuase you need 2-3 times more of it it burns the whole length of the stroke so you get more power and it also keeps te engine a lot cooler.

TcmaBoy · 04-28-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketracing

There are a few other problems to E-85: other than the cylinder washdown you have to use more of it because it does not like to burn, the terrible fumes and its hell to get started during the winter. The only good thin i can say for E-85 is becuase you need 2-3 times more of it it burns the whole length of the stroke so you get more power and it also keeps te engine a lot cooler.

You have to use more fuel because of its chemical make up, not because "it does not like to burn." The ideal mix of gas to air is about 14.7:1, that is you need 14.7 parts air to one part fuel. for E-85 it is about 9.6:1. E-85 does not need as much oxygen to burn as gas does. This is because of the size of the carbon chain. Gas has a longer chain. It needs more air for combustion. Since our air volume in an engine is fixed we adjust the fuel mix to get the right balance. You add more E-85 to use up the available air.

The damage caused to cylinders is more than just wash down. When you burn ethanol a mild acid is formed. It will eat away at your block, head, positions, and rings if they are not treated for ethanol use. Most newer engines can withstand its use, but older motors are at risk.

The terrible fumes you speak of are caused by a rich mix. The same will happen in a gas, or diesel, engine that is not runing right.

You do not need 2-3 times the fuel to run E-85. At 9.6:1 AFR you are only running a 30% increase in fuel. If you are running double the fuel then that might explain your fume issues. That is waaaaaaay rich. I would be surprised that an engine would even fire that rich. The reason it burns through the whole stroke is because it has a slower burn rate. The same holds true for any high octane fuel. Hmmm....with the switch to ethanol fuels I wonder if they will finally change the "octane" rating to a proper rating that indicates detonation resistance seeing as how ethanol has no "octane." Anyway that slower burn and detonation resistance is what also allows you to run more timing and milk a few extra ponies out of your motor.