E85 and the 7MGTE

[funky_monkey58]

There are many rumors floating around about E85 as a fuel supply.

To start off first we will go over Octane ratings. Many people think the higher the octane rating the more combustible the fuel is, this is FALSE the higher the octane rating is the more resistant it is to combustion due to pressure. The lower the octane level the more prone to preignition the fuel is. Hence why our turbo cars run like poop on 87 octane under boost.

Now a good octane rating for pump gas premium is 93. E85 has an average rating of 100-110 octane. The down side is it requires about 30% more of it to sustain the same power levels as conventional gasoline. This is where it becomes awesome for the 7MGTE owner.

To run E85 on your stock 7mgte simply upgrade to a 255lph walbro fuel pump, replace your fuel filter and pop in some 550CC injectors, and for the greatest control get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator while you are at it. (the J tube can simply be bypassed with a splice)

Now to run higher boost on E85 simply get a lexus or a LIPP AFM then buy some 720CC injectors and put those in and call it a day.


See how easy it really is to run E85 in these old cars! Pretty neat isn't it.

-Sean

[Jeeves]

e85 has adverse long term affects on factory rubber and aluminum that isn't properly treated.

[funky_monkey58]

Originally Posted by Jeeves

e85 has adverse long term affects on factory rubber and aluminum that isn't properly treated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1...om=PL&index=45

[Jeeves]

Handbook for Handling, Storing, and Dispensing E85 Page 11:

The NEVC and the Petroleum Equipment Institute have worked together to gather the most comprehensive summary of alcoholcompatible equipment possible; however, other approved parts may be available. Some materials become degraded by contact with fuel ethanol blends having high alcohol concentrations. Zinc, brass, lead, and aluminum are sensitive metals. Terne (lead-tin-alloy)-plated steel, which is commonly used for gasoline fuel tanks, and lead-based solder are also incompatible with E85. Avoid using these metals because of the possibility of fuel contamination and potential difficulties with vehicle driveability. Unplated steel, stainless steel, black iron, and bronze have shown acceptable resistance to ethanol corrosion.

Nonmetallic materials that degrade when in contact with fuel ethanol include natural rubber, polyurethane, cork gasket material, leather, polyvinyl chloride (PVC), polyamides, methyl-methacrylate plastics, and certain thermo and thermoset plastics. Nonmetallic materials that have been successfully used for transferring and storing fuel ethanol include nonmetallic thermoset reinforced fiberglass, thermo plastic piping, and thermoset reinforced fiberglass tanks as listed by Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. Buna-N, Neoprene rubber, polypropylene, nitrile,Viton, and Teflon materials may also be used with E85.

Many of those things are not things that could be shown by that video. It should also be pointed out for the tuners, that the Stoich of E85 is ~9.7:1, not the 14:7:1 of unleaded.

[SupraTuned]

I will NEVER use e 85 in my supra. Thanks for laying out the facts jeeves.

[suprabran]

What about different ratios or percents of alcohol. Instead of 85% alcohol what if you used 45-50% would it help with the problems or is it still bad? I don't know much about any alternative fuels. I remember a while back they said that bio diesel would never work, but it is a great fuel with the WVO if processed right, and filtered. So I think some stuff that the oil companies say are more to help sell there products. I have never ran E85 or any alcohol type fuel, but has anyone used alcohol to prove it either way to be good or bad?

[funky_monkey58]

Originally Posted by SupraTuned

I will NEVER use e 85 in my supra. Thanks for laying out the facts jeeves.

The facts?

Alcohol is an awesome fuel it is just below methanol.

I know several people running high hp on Ethanol blends. One friend made 400whp with 343wtq out of a 1.6l honda, and another guy I know made over 1khp on E98 and drag races in the 8s with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXdupZiI6vA

The 2jzgte 87 supra we have runs E85 and we made over 439whp with mild boost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KWo05yl5oU
Pretty much any hose made recently will hold up to E85. And for the E85 to have serious effects on your fuel rail would take years of daily use.

[Jeeves]

Don't you hate it when a browser crashes when you've got a LONG post typed up?
:grumble:

Let's see, what did I have written.

I believe the video or the handbook (I either heard or read it somewhere) talks about the fact that most of the stuff has all been tested for the 10% Ethanol mix that states bump up to during certain time periods, but nothing beyond that.

There are many positions, sides to take in this. Some people take the cheaper route and simply swap injectors, tune and drive their cars other people (like myself) stand with the safer approach and would rather replace/repair parts that deemed E85 incompatible. Really, whichever works for you, all the power to you, just be forewarned about the possible pros/cons to either side.

I've thought for quite some time about converting to E85 on my car. Since I aim for higher HP, I'd probably end up in >700cc range injectors. I'd be annodizing alum. parts and so on. Largely the gains for me are the emissions reduction and the power potential (and the fact it doesn't knock for crap). The most important thing to remember when converting any vehicle to E85 is that you cannot simply fill up one day with unleaded. Drain it. Then the next day fill up with E85 and go. If it's an unleaded based vehicle this will be a very bad thing. It will need the larger injectors to compensate for the more fuel delivery needed and depending on the vehicle possibly a larger fuel pump. If the injectors are a bit off, it may need some tuning as well. Combine all these things, and you'll have a drivable E85 vehicle that'll do what you need.

If you think you can just top off and go, I'll post up some 2JZ photos where the owner tried that. The engine leaned out, destroyed several valves, burned holes in parts of the head. VERY bad news.

Anywho. I think that's it for now.

Edit: Everyone seems to know someone making power on E85. A good friend of mine in town has a business tuning E85 cars. Made >500whp on an Integra. Do what you'd like. And, did I ever claim it wasn't a fuel? Was that ever being discussed? Don't be so narrowminded. Aluminum is all over and the particulates that will be degraded from those softer metals will be taken down and deposited further down the line (much like silt in a riverbed). Where they stick is all a big question. Whether it's the cylinder rings/walls, valve seats or seals, or things like the catalytic converter and O2 Sensor or maybe it makes it out. The document is clear. Can't speak for you, but I'm a fan of my vehicle lasting more than a season.

[Jeeves]

And just because it's an interesting article that's gaining some attention, I'll toss this in here.

The first one is the one I'm talking about, the other three are related:

1) The Great Ethanol Scam - Not only is ethanol proving to be a dud as a fuel substitute but there is increasing evidence that it is destroying engines in large numbers
2) Ethanol Industry’s 15% Solution Raises Concerns
“All a consumer has to do is look at the fuels section of the owner’s manual, which says that the use of fuel above 10 percent ethanol may result in denial of warranty claims.”
3) Higher Ethanol Fuel: A Lose-Lose.
4) Ethanol-Gasoline Fuel Blends May Cause Human Health Risks and Engine Issues: By Olga V. Naidenko, PhD, Senior Scientist, May 2009