Hard Start Issue

[The Ghost Man]

Greetings all,
Finally getting closer to getting my ride where she needs to be, but I've got a couple of questions. What would cause my '89 MKIII to start really rough initially? I turn the key and she doesn't fire until usually the 3rd time and after I'm pumping the gas pedal. Then she fires up really rough and I've got to hit the pedal a couple more times to clear "the junk out". After that she idles smooth, runs great without issue, but she seems a bit laggy. The plugs are recent NGK plats, NGK wires are about 3.5 years old and the fuel filter is stock about 3 years old. I'm running the Lexus AFM on stock 440's with a new bigger turbo Bushur racing BOV, Apexi air intake, stock PCV breather, custom IC top pipe (eliminating the 2 rubber & 1 plastic), 3" custom exhaust. I appreciate any and all responses & thanks to all in advance!

[Jeeves]

You you done anything w/the cold start injector? Is it functioning properly?

Other than that it could be a number of things. When I lost compression on #1, it would ALWAYS take 2 cranks, then she'd kick over. Also, as a side note, with this being the days of fuel injection, pumping the pedal pre-start does very little.

Have you checked your compression readings recently? I'm curious as to the usage of the Lexas AFM, Larger turbo and 440s. That's a horrible combo to lean the snot outta the motor. Do you have a wideband setup or a method of fuel control somehow? Even on the stock turbo running a Lexus AFM has proven disasterous (overly lean condition) for some mk3 owners.

[The Ghost Man]

Your right on the money with the Lexus AFM, I'm probably killing the engine. So I'm temporarily going back to the stock AFM and I should be cool. I'll pick up the other stuff down the road which sounds like a chunk o' dough, RC 550's, Walbro FP. Problem is finding a quality AFM which is harder than crap, I could go to the dealer but I'm not into the $400.00 cash hijack. By any chance do you know of someone whose got on for sale?

[Jeeves]

RC 550's can be picked up for ~$60 an injector, so $360 and a Walbro 255 is easy to come by. You can find them on ebay for as low as $70USD. For something like a fuel pump, you don't really need an authorized dealer.

[turbomic]

on start up do not put the pedel to the floor on a fuel injected car , this actully shuts off the fuel and puts the car in clear flood mode witch is ment to help start flooded motors only.
Does the car blow any smoke when the starts if you see lots of white smoke if this is the case the cold start injector is stuck open. The fuel pressure would drop when you turn off the car becuase of the cold start injector stuck open so when you tried to start it it would have to build pressure back up and take a while to start. You said it runs fine after surpissing on how lean it should be with that combo. Maybe the extra fuel from the cold start injector would compensate. Just a few ideas I have found this or a simillar problem with a pontiac fiero witch allso had a cold start injector.

[The Ghost Man]

Jeeves you gotta tell me where to pick up that deal... damn that's the cheapest I've ever heard of.

[The Ghost Man]

Thanks for the advice turbomic, no white smoke at all. I'm definitely thinking that it's got to be the Lexus AFM in there and the more I hear from people the more I think holy crap I'm beating the crap outta the engine by running it that way. So I immediately stopped and she's just sitting now, while I run around trying to pick up a stock AFM (with no luck, almost won one on eBay last night but some determined jackass beat me to it.) I'm also going back and forth about plunging a lot of dough into getting the RC 550's, Walbro pump and fuel management system. Any recommendations on a good fuel management system? Thanks in advance!

[bad7mgte]

hey do you still want to get rid of that lexus afm? I want one bad, afm and injectors is what im getting next. my car has had some trouble starting too....I found this adjustable screw that is in all on the aluminum afm housings and you have to drill it out in order to get to the screw and then you can open and close the amount of air that your afm reads your engine is sucking in, it really helps a lot with rich/lean tuning...that and an adjustablu fuel pressure regulator. let me know if you want to see some pictures or something of what i'm talking about, and let me know if you still want to get rid of that lexus afm!!

[The Ghost Man]

Hey Bad7mgte, I just got a nice stock AFM off of eBay, drilled out the cap, accessed and advanced the screw out. I just found out you could do that with the stock AFM to gain 16-18psi before fuel-cut kicks in. I'm not running an AFPR (don't know if I really need one), and she's running sweet so far. First time she's been out for 6 months due to all kinds of mechanical hell with oil leaks, blown turbo, bad CPS, and I had to replace the alternator with a higher voltage one to keep up with electronics demands.

I thought about doing the Lexus AFM, Walbro FP & 550's but that was becoming excessively expensive, not to mention the fact that my ride's got 150k original miles on her. I'm cleaning her up little by little now, with new copper plugs, maybe a new BOV (wondering now if mine is really holding the boost). And I'm debating whether or not to go full Mobil synthetic, since now I've pretty much got all new seals on everything. Anyone care to roll in with suggestions on this?

A far as the Lexus AFM, I need some time to decide if my setup now is cool, or am I going to have to upgrade. If I do decide to sell that AFM, I won't forget and give you first crack. Hopefully people will respond and let me know what they think, which will help me decide. Thanks!

[Zach Ayres]

Hey,
My '89 turbo has a similar problem, maybe one of you guys coulc direct me to what it could be. It only has a tough time starting up when cold. And as soon as it does start it idles rough until I lightly tap the gas pedal. But then it runs perfect and never does it again until 6-8 hours of the motor getting cold again.

I guess it might be the cold start injector but would that make it idle rough for short time. Any info. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[The Ghost Man]

Yeah, mine still is a little rough like yours starting, except it doesn't start and run rough until you tap the pedal. Mine turns and turns until I hit the gas pedal, then she fires up and runs like a clock afterwords. i'm dyin' to know wtf it is too. I long for the day when I can just turn the key and wham! she fires up. I suspect the cold start injector too but need some more input on other possibilities. If you find out please tag back here and let me know. Thanks in advance!

[Zach Ayres]

Oh yea forgot to mention that mine is all stock except for the air filter. So without the lexus afm and other mods it is still doing this.

[bad7mgte]

well....thats where i'm at too..
mine does what your guys is doing....and have you by any chance noticed that....after driving around for a little bit, you park turn it off(turbo timer of course) and come back in about 15-20 minutes and it just cranks and cranks and cranks, until it finally starts after pumping the gas a bit.
Another thing is...on cold mornings sometimes..it wont even crank, i have to jump it with a brand new battery!!! I have really been thinking all of this is a starter problem to tell you the truth.

This may sound crazy, but my friend had an old ford truck with a starter solenoid that was going out and it had many of the same symptoms that my car has....trouble starting some mornings, hard to start when the engine is warm sometimes, and pumping the gas seems to help(might be all in my imagination though).

anyway, i've been meaning to go pick up a starter and put it in just to see if it starts better for a couple days, but starters are like 150$!!!

if this sounds at all feasable to you all then let me know what you think,

thanks

[The Ghost Man]

Your problem might be the starter, but somehow I doubt it. Seems to me that if it was it would eventually just die and go click-click-click when you tried starting her up. I think both our problems may be related to either a malfunction in the fuel system, or a electrical ignition glitch. I'm going to change to copper plugs with a .28-.30 gap, get a new cold start injector and eventually go the whole 9 yards and upgrade the fuel system with 550's, Walbro fuel pump, Aeromotive AFPR with pressure gauge. Surely one of those things we're gonna try, between the two of us has gotta knock out this crappy start-up problem. Let me know if you hear of, or try anything successful.