MR2 Safety Thread

[Safe Drives]

Hi All,

I thought it would be a good discution.

I've had 3 MK1 MR2s and I felt pretty safe up to about 80MPH... Then I rolled one... Scary. I was luck to have not been killed!

I love MR2s but I need a roll bar or cage something.

I'm a safety guru and I'm curious as to everyones thoughts.

Thanks in advance!

[arcasmachineracing]

Wrong forum buddy.

[Gairloch]

I've never driven a MkI but I drive my MkII at HPDEs. I love how it handles and I have no qualms at all about taking it through turns at high speeds.

I do this while wearing an SA2000 rated helmet and my seat belt notched as tight as I can stand. If I were't planning on getting a full time track rat at some point I'd probably cage it, but for now that's not in the works.

[ToyotaTechGeek]

i have considered doing a cage in my MkI. i know a friend of mine got a Hux Racing cage. i just didn't want my MkI SC to turn into a full-blown racecar like my Tercel did and i was daily driving it. however...

[Safe Drives]

I think a simple roll bar behind the seats would be cool. Ithink I'd feel way better about that SUV besides me.

[JekylandHyde]

Generally speaking, having a roll bar or roll cage in a street car makes it more dangerous.

[Gairloch]

Originally Posted by JekylandHyde

Generally speaking, having a roll bar or roll cage in a street car makes it more dangerous.

Is that because of increased chance of head impact, or becuase the car doesn't crush/flex as much?

[JekylandHyde]

Head impact.

Roll bars, especially roll cages, should only be used with helmets and 5-point harnesses.

[Safe Drives]

Originally Posted by JekylandHyde

Head impact.

Roll bars, especially roll cages, should only be used with helmets and 5-point harnesses.

This statement is heresay. We get this online all of the time though.

While I agree that helmets and harnesses are always safer the facts are that people drive street vehicles with roll bar and cages all of the time. We sell them everyday.

Those people need to put the BSCI impact padding anywhere that their head could even possilbly come into contact with the roll bar or cage. The BSCI Padding meets the 201.U and 302 standard of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. It also has met the strict SFI AND FIA standard for roll bar padding. It's good stuff. It's safer than hitting your bare head on your "A" pillar in your street car during a 30MPH impact.

So Roll bar, padding and harness. Much safer. Helmet? Save it for your track day.

[Safe Drives]

This is what we recomend for street driven vehicles that have roll bars or cages. The FIA padding is thicker and as such will absorb more energy. Also being thicker it reduces the distance that you will travel before hitting the padding, thus you will hit it going slower.

See all of the details here.

[JekylandHyde]

Do you have a photo of the MK1 you rolled?

Originally Posted by Safe Drives

This statement is heresay. We get this online all of the time though.

I know of at least one driver locally that you could have explained that to if he hadn't died from hitting his head on a padded-roll bar in his street car. I'm sure he would have agreed it was heresay.

There are also a number of stories online about this. I'm not going to reference them since "anything" can be said/made up online. I do know of one case from my personal experience though.

Originally Posted by Safe Drives

While I agree that helmets and harnesses are always safer the facts are that people drive street vehicles with roll bar and cages all of the time.

The implication of your sentence is that because people do this "all the time" it's safer.
Following that logic, people drink and drive all the time, so I guess that is safer as well?

Originally Posted by Safe Drives

We sell them everyday.

And there it is. Why does it take until your 3rd post in here to acknowledge this is a for sale thread?

Originally Posted by Safe Drives

Those people need to put the BSCI impact padding anywhere that their head could even possilbly come into contact with the roll bar or cage. The BSCI Padding meets the 201.U and 302 standard of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

I've seen your posts on other boards and it is apparent that you enjoy debating this subject.
It's interesting that you are quick to point out that it meets the 201.U safety standards.
On one board you even go so far as to link to the NHTSA pdf that explains the testing procedure and you so proudly point out that the procedure mentions "roll bar" 9 times as if the mere mention of hte word is the NHTSA's blessing.

I have to wonder, did you read more than simply searching the document for the word rollbar? Did you happen to read the definitions of terms used by NHTSA?

Definitions ~ Page 17:

A fixed overhead structural member, including its vertical support structure, that extends from the left to the right side of the passenger compartment of any open body vehicles and convertibles. It does not include a header.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles...TP-201U-1a.pdf

Interesting that you were using that doucment to peddle your products on the Subura board.
How many of those Suburas do you think are open body vehicles [or] convertibles?

Someone how I don't think you find much debate that a roll bar + padding is safer in an open body vehicles [or a] convertible.

Originally Posted by Safe Drives

It's safer than hitting your bare head on your "A" pillar in your street car during a 30MPH impact.

Can you document where a properly belted person has ever hit there head on an A-pillar at 30 mph?

Originally Posted by Safe Drives

So Roll bar, padding and harness. .... Much safer. Helmet? Save it for your track day.

Wow, so now you are recommending a harness for the street?!
I can see you are very interested in safety.

At the risk of being extremely forward, let me offer you some advice as vendor:
1. Call a spade a spade. It is insulting to your potential customers to make a for sale thread disguised as anything but for sale thread. IMO you shoud have acknowledged in post #1 that you were here to sell.

2. When people challenge you and your claims, I would suggest avoiding using the "rolling eyes" smileys (and similar ones that imply sarcasm) when you answer their inquiries. As a 3rd-person reading over the Subura thread, I don't think I would ever consider buying from you simply based on how you interact with your potential customer's questions and doubts.

You seem more interested in arguing than truly making cars safer. That being said, I am going to limit my commitment to this debate since people, if really interested, can read your words on the Subura link. My only reason for responding in here at all is becuase I am concerned about people's safety, not about making money.

3. Unless you can document, with emperical evidence, that using a roll bar with this padding is safer in an enclosed vehicle, you might want to consider the legal implications of your words.

I wonder if it is worth selling $25 roll pad covering in relation to the potential law suit $$ that could potentially arise when someone is injured following your advice.

I would like to thank you for introducing me to the BSCI padding.
At this point, I think I am going to look into buying this product from someone else for my race car.

As for making the MR2 safer, side-impacts are generally more fatal to MR2 owners than roll overs. Interesting that a fire suppression system has not been mention or don't you sell those yet?

[JekylandHyde]

Originally Posted by Safe Drives

Also being thicker it reduces the distance that you will travel before hitting the padding, thus you will hit it going slower.

That statement appears to defy physics.

The moment the head is jerked it would be at it's "fastest" movement, anytime after the initial head jerk it would be "slowing" down as long as it is still connected ... the muscles, veins, nerves, bones, etc would start to pull and resist acceleration (whiplash, etc). The head movement would not speed up over distance.

The only way I can see your statement making any logic sense is if you are implying that the object you hit your head on is potentially acceleratin toward the head.

[BDSL]

I think Safe Drives is trying to promote/sell his products...$$$. Do I sound right?

Personally, a vehicle is only as safe as the driver. For normal street driving, standard OEM safety equipment is do the job.

[ToyotaTechGeek]

well, i must say that in my EL31, i have driven on public highways for over 10 years with a rollbar in the car...sans padding. the hoop is well above my head in order to conform to how the top hoop needs to have "X" slope to the top of the radiator. i have harnesses in the car. i have 5 points for racedays. i do this and have done this at my own risk.

that being said, Safe Drives has every right to promote his products, he's a board vendor. i also agree that the car safety always is attributed to the nut behind the wheel. i also wonder which would cause me more of a headache...if i rolled my MkI SC, with the t-tops out, would i hit my head on terra firma? or the rollcage/rollbar??? and which would cause me more damage?

[JekylandHyde]

I agree that he has the right to promote his products. In fact, I am seriously interested in this product and I appreciate becoming aware of it.
I just really disagree with his tactics/presentation.

This page I created before seems to be on topic:
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/md.htm

If you read the article on Brian Chuong you will see he flipepd his MR2 while racing and died from "blunt force trauma to the head."
However, his teenage passenger who "was wearing a seat belt, was not injured."

These are the only other two stories I have on people dieing in MR2 roll overs, but in both case the car was on fire and the people were trapped. Casuse of death is not given (flames or head trauma):
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/md100401.htm
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/mdburned.htm

There have been 2 or 3 threads on MR2oc.com of people rolling MR2s and surviving with normal street safety equipment. Bryan NoShoes Moore even rolled an MR2 with a a passenger and neither was injured.

There is Fabio's hill climb crash video in which he was using all proper safety equipment for racing (full suit, roll bar, pading, harness, arm restraint & helmet) and did not have so much as a scratch on himself.

Don't get me wrong, I drive Hyde on the street (rarely) and I accept the risks of choosing to do that. It is not something I would ever preach is safer or encourage anyone else to do.