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Old 12-25-2005, 12:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2nd Generation 93 Turbo Flooding Out

Hiya guys,

I have a 93 turbo which is running extremely bad. I'm getting about 200 miles to a tank of fuel and the gas smell is so bad I scared to light a match near the exhaust.

I've pulled the codes from the computer and I'm getting a failed air temp sensor, knock sensor and EGR valve problem codes.

It will idle fine and run fine floored but anything in between runs like crap. The instant the turbo starts to kick in the car slows down and starts missing badly while blowing black smoke which is excess fuel because I can smell it strong!

Which sensor would cause it to do this? I've checked and rechecked the intake for leaks and cannot find any and I have also replaced all of the vacuum lines plus check the VSV, cleaned the EGR and checked MAF.

Toyota won't touch my car because of the mods but in a nut shell I have bored it .040 over running Cometic steel gasket, forged pistons, eagle rods, balanced, lightened, 4 angles on the valves, shimmed the valves, 3" dump pipe, tube header exhaust (which is a bad idea), MSD ignition, nology hotwires, iridium plugs, running 15lbs of boost yada yada yada...

The car was running fine until I pressured washed the engine then it turn to crap from there.

I'm leaning toward the air temp sensor (which I have ordered) but I wanted to get feedback about any other possible issues.

TIA!!

David

Last edited by TaCoB71; 12-25-2005 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 12-26-2005, 01:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Map sensor.

Won't neccesary trip a code. Probably just giving the wrong readings.
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The car was running fine until I pressured washed the engine then it turn to crap from there.

That actually tells me all I need to know. I'm also a new owner and new poster, but have been through this already.

I did not pressure wash my engine, but I did hose it down with degreaser and water in September. Ran like crap all the time after doing this and smelled like fuel I had two problems...one was I got water in the distributor cap since the gasket was partially missing. Also got water down the spark plug wells.

After drying the rotor and replacing the rotor gasket, I sucked the water out of the plug wells, and replacing the plugs. All was fine again. I tried to AVOID the spark plug holes but they were fill regardless.

I suspect you also have water in the spark plugs wells. Replace the plugs and dry the wires. It should run better. Another idea is you got water on an electrical connector where it should not be. You can pull off the connectors one by one and spray "electrical contact" cleaner on them to dry them. Or they will dry out on their own after a few hours of engine running time.

Good luck and let us know what you find!
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nad1370
Map sensor.
Won't neccesary trip a code. Probably just giving the wrong readings.
The MAP sensor has nothing to do with fueling.
All it does is operate th eOEM boost gauge and initiate fuel cut.
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Old 12-27-2005, 05:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JekylandHyde
The MAP sensor has nothing to do with fueling.
All it does is operate th eOEM boost gauge and initiate fuel cut.
You are correct on the boost gauge and fuel cut.

But it also sends signal to the ecu for fuel calculations.

http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/mapsensor.htm

So it has alot to do with fueling.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Do you believe everything you read online?
That whole page merely explains what the MAP sensor measures and
how it sends it to the ECU. That is no "proof" that it is used in fueling.

They have one line in there that claims that "the signal is used by the ECU for fuelling calculations," but where is that demonstrated?

I have never run the MAP sensor hooked up on Hyde.
This is also the case with many, many MR2s.
Corking the vac line to the MAP sensor is the fastest and
cheapest (free!) way to get rid of fuel cut.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It might be worth noting, that the factory manuals for the 1991 MR2
do not list any reference to checking out the MAP sensor for troubleshooting
problems with the EFI (electronic fuel injection) system.

For your reference:
http://www.mr2-tech.com/bgb/mechanic...i_system/3.htm

If it is so important, why is never needed to check for fueling problems?
They sure do have you check the AFM quite a bit.

Furthermore, if we checkthe actual engine codes that can be thrown (again fro mteh factory manuals:
http://www.mr2-tech.com/bgb/mechanic...i_system/4.htm
... what do we see?

Code 25 & 26: Air Fuel Ratio LEAN or RICH:
What to check? ... a bunch of stuff that does NOT include the MAP sensor.

Code 35 & 35: Turbocharging Pressure Signal
Not a single mention of fuel there.

So, are you going to trust a Supra site in New Zealand or the factory manuals from Toyota?

Last edited by JekylandHyde; 12-27-2005 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ah yes, I didn't even think of the MAP sensor! I know this is a little off but my mom has a 93 Ford Escort that has done the exact same thing as my MR2. It never dawned on me until now.

Thanks to all those who responded! I appreciate the direction!

I cleared my codes after I realized that the Air temp sensor code was a result of the MAF cable being loose. The only code I have now is the Knock Sensor other than that its clean.

I'll see if I can dig a MAP sensor on ebay or something. Thanks again!
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Okay.

Don't know much about the MR2 but I have decsent knowledge of fueling. If you say that the MAP in the car doesn't adjust fuel, but hasn't been proven, then what does ?

Does this particular vehicle also have a MAF meter ?
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Yes it does have a MAF sensor which I've already tested with an ohm meter and it's fine.

I actually have the boost sensor disconnected right now because my turbo keeps boosting to 15 psi and killing my fuel supply. I have to figure out why it's not stopping at 10psi.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that!
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Old 12-27-2005, 09:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Nad, all I know is the turbo MR2.
It has an AFM (air flow meter) to establish fuel delivery.
I realize that other cars (including the non-turbo MR2!) use a MAP to establish fuel delivery,
but the turbo MR2 does not.

Taco, your problem IS your knock sensor.
If you cleared your codes and code 52 (knock) came back,
it IS dead. You will need a new sensor. It has to be replaced.

More importantly, you might want to figure out why you blew it in the first place.
You must have experienced some health detonation/knock to blow the sensor.
Blowing that sensor saved your engine.
Simply replacing it without resolving why is just begging to blow another one or worse.
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Old 12-27-2005, 09:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JekylandHyde
Nad, all I know is the turbo MR2.
It has an AFM (air flow meter) to establish fuel delivery.
I realize that other cars (including the non-turbo MR2!) use a MAP to establish fuel delivery,
but the turbo MR2 does not.
.
Glad to know this. I just don't understand why it has both MAP and MAF.

Thanks for the steer.
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