Newbie Motor swap/compatibilty questions - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

JohnnyRanger101 · 10-20-2007, 12:08 PM

Ok, Ive always been an volkswagen guy But i have recently aquired a 1989 toyota MR2 non turbo NA. I got it for free.. The motor in it has a hole in block so it has been taken out. I also have an full motor (same 16v motor) from a FWD corolla, I know that it wont bolt up but hey it was free also.. My question is, can i Take the block from the corolla and use my MR2 head, I havent pulled apart the heads off either motor so I dont know if all the oil gallies and what not line up, are the pistons the same etc etc etc..?? Ive noticed that the intake ports are much bigger on the MR2 Head so Im guessing that the MR2 has an higher performance and better flowing head so i really want to use it. Also the motor that came out of the corolla has an jasma header, id like to try to use that if i can too just for shits and giggles..

Now the story behind the car.. I run an Offroad 4x4 shop and the owner has an auto repair shop right next door. A airline pilot traveling on the highway blew this car up coming over the mountain and had it towed here to get fixed, he sourced another 16v motor from VA and had it shipped here. when we found out that it would not work he just donated and sent us the pink to the car. In turn the Service manager next door asked me if i wanted this car and both motors, uhh yes, Its sooo worth fixing, its white with glass t tops, momo steering wheel, momo seats, blistein coilover suspension, 16 inch ATS wheels, brand new tires, and theres not a dent or scratch on this thing... Thats how i aquired it and I'd like to get it running with my exsiting parts but if i have to buy a short block i will.. I figure this will be a killer weekend ripper for the wife and I...

anyways, any help would be greatly appreciated..

Hoooaaa!!!

JohnnyRanger.

TIA

JohnnyRanger101 · 10-22-2007, 10:17 AM

no-one?? bump

MR2 Guru · 10-23-2007, 05:08 PM

I can help but there are a lot of questions I would have to ask you before we get started.

"I also have an full motor (same 16v motor) from a FWD corolla"
- What year and what is the engine code? Many of the Corollas had 16v engines without the same engine code. If it is a 88-92 4A-GE it should bolt in, without problems. Worst case scenario you may have to use the mounts from the MR2 on the Corolla block. You can tell this by looking at the similarities between the two engines. If the valve/cam covers do not look nearly identical, you have a situation; being the easiest way to tell right off the bat.

If you determine that you have the right engine (4A-GE 16v), then your next problem to tackle is to swap out all the bolt-on accessories. The corolla would have had different mounting brackets for nearly everything, including but not limited to the alternator, AC Compressor, etc. You are also going to need to remove the power steering pump etc. since the MR2 does not use that. I would also suggest using the wiring harness, sensors and computer from the mr2.

On another good note, if the Corolla engine is correct you can use the headers.

"Ive noticed that the intake ports are much bigger on the MR2 Head so Im guessing that the MR2 has an higher performance and better flowing head so i really want to use it."

- Pictures would help in this situation. The intake parts should not differ much from the MR2 engine unless you have jumped a generation in the engines, or you have an incorrect Corolla engine. If you have acquired the corolla engine from a year above 1992, it would be called a Smallport Redtop 4AGE. Still 4AGE, still 16v, but lacks TVIS. This engine packs 130hp versus the 115hp your MR2 engine had. This could be somewhat disappointing if you do not have the corresponding sensors, harness and computer for that particular engine. Otherwise you will not be able to reap the benefits since you will have to use EVERYTHING from your MR2 engine on it; sensors, manifolds and all, even down to the fuel rail.

If in the case that your engine is not 4AGE , you will need to start from scratch or prepare for a world of headaches for a first time swapper.

I do hope some of this has helped!

Sincerely,
MR2 Guru

JohnnyRanger101 · 10-24-2007, 03:10 PM

Great Info!! Thanks.. Ok Let me answer what I can... I'm not sure of the year corolla that this motor came out of, The Valve covers look identical except the one fromt he corolla has a cover going down the middle and the MR2 cover doesnt have this but looks liek it did at one point.. Same bolts and everything. I looked for a code off the engine but i cant find anything stamped on the block other then an "027" stamp on the back, the sticker on the timing belt cover is not there where it would usually tell me the engine code.. The only real visible difference from what i can see is that the corolle intake ports are much smaller then the MR2 ports.. I can get 4 fingers (karate chop style) into the ports of the MR2 head and only 3 fingers into the corolla head.. This head has not been ported and polished im sure and all the factory burrs are still there from casting in the ports.. Im hoping that i can use just the block from the corolla and use everthing else from the MR2 including all the ACC, this should work right??

MR2 Guru · 10-24-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyRanger101

The only real visible difference from what i can see is that the corolle intake ports are much smaller then the MR2 ports.. I can get 4 fingers (karate chop style) into the ports of the MR2 head and only 3 fingers into the corolla head.. This head has not been ported and polished im sure and all the factory burrs are still there from casting in the ports.. Im hoping that i can use just the block from the corolla and use everthing else from the MR2 including all the ACC, this should work right??

I know it may not be possible, but if you can, is there a way for you to get pictures of both engines for me?

JohnnyRanger101 · 10-24-2007, 06:12 PM

Give me till tomorrow and Ill get some pics..

Thanks for helping me out man, its really apprciated!!

toyotaspeed90 · 10-24-2007, 08:36 PM

guru, huh....?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 Guru

I can help but there are a lot of questions I would have to ask you before we get started.

"I also have an full motor (same 16v motor) from a FWD corolla"
- What year and what is the engine code? Many of the Corollas had 16v engines without the same engine code. If it is a 88-92 4A-GE it should bolt in, without problems. Worst case scenario you may have to use the mounts from the MR2 on the Corolla block. You can tell this by looking at the similarities between the two engines. If the valve/cam covers do not look nearly identical, you have a situation; being the easiest way to tell right off the bat.

there are 4ag longblocks from more cars than just those that will work.... here's a list of cars:

ae86 gt-s (would be the most difficult as you can only use the LB itself)
ae82 fx16 and fx16 gts
ae92 gts 88-89
ae92 gts 90-91
(rare) ae82 nova twin cam
(less rare) ae92 geo prizm gsi

however, the corolla's of all those years also cam with non 4ag engines.....

there are also 2 (well, 3 but for practical purposes 2) versions of the 4ag's that were available....

pre 1990 there was the bigport 4ag... has larger intake ports, has t-vis (so you'll see the mr2 engine has 8 intake runners)... lower C/R and there's no oil drain on the back of the head (near #4 cyl on intake side)

1990-1991 is what is known as the smallport 4age.... smaller intake ports, no t-vis (4 intake runners total), and the oil drain as stated above.

Quote:

If you determine that you have the right engine (4A-GE 16v), then your next problem to tackle is to swap out all the bolt-on accessories. The corolla would have had different mounting brackets for nearly everything, including but not limited to the alternator, AC Compressor, etc. You are also going to need to remove the power steering pump etc. since the MR2 does not use that. I would also suggest using the wiring harness, sensors and computer from the mr2.

On another good note, if the Corolla engine is correct you can use the headers.

not true.... the corolla peripheral mounts are different in the ae86 and on non 4ag corollas. As for the 4age cars.... the only thing that might be different is that the corolla might have a mounting location for a PS pump.... but the reservoir on the ae92 gts's isn't attached to the pump, so it's a small mounting location.

only the top part of the headers will work before custom exhaust work will need to be done... it's not a bolt-on affair.

now if you're talking about the exhaust manifold (stock) then it depends on which egr tube the car has on it and which hole the new engine's manifold has in it (there were 2 different locations and also non-egr jdm manifolds)

Quote:

"Ive noticed that the intake ports are much bigger on the MR2 Head so Im guessing that the MR2 has an higher performance and better flowing head so i really want to use it."

- Pictures would help in this situation. The intake parts should not differ much from the MR2 engine unless you have jumped a generation in the engines, or you have an incorrect Corolla engine. If you have acquired the corolla engine from a year above 1992, it would be called a Smallport Redtop 4AGE. Still 4AGE, still 16v, but lacks TVIS. This engine packs 130hp versus the 115hp your MR2 engine had. This could be somewhat disappointing if you do not have the corresponding sensors, harness and computer for that particular engine. Otherwise you will not be able to reap the benefits since you will have to use EVERYTHING from your MR2 engine on it; sensors, manifolds and all, even down to the fuel rail.

the smallport came out in 1990 and stopped being put in cars in late 1991.... by 1992 the gts in the US was no-longer and in japan they used the silvertop 20V in late 1991.

if you use all of the mr2 electronics the car will run fine and MUCH faster than stock.... however, there will be what people call a "flat spot" in the middle of the rpm's.... this is because the mr2's ecu will expect to see a change when t-vis would be opening but doesn't.... however, after that rpm range the real power of the smallport will show itself.... even on stock aw11 electronics

Quote:

If in the case that your engine is not 4AGE , you will need to start from scratch or prepare for a world of headaches for a first time swapper.

find a 4age.... the 4afe is garbage.... smaller cranks (well, from 88+) that are not balanced like the 4age, less power because of lower C/R, and the slave-cam head (which has a purpose of fuel economy.... not performance)... and etc....

photos aren't needed.... the smallport (if complete and original) will have a valve cover valley cover over the spark plug wires.... ie, the spark plug wires will not be even with the top of the valve covers and will be covered..... the spark plug wires (if 'original' or oe) will be 4 or 5mm with a clip holding them to the distributor cap, not the larger wires found on most cars.... also, you will have 4 intake runners (not 8) and the top of the manifold will not say t-vis... the t-vis manifolds are smooth with the emblem (t-vis), the smallport manifolds are ribbed on the top..... lastly, the smallport's most notable difference is the drain on the head for oil, from the head to the block with a short rubber tube connecting them. This is found on the intake side at the #4 cylinder head.

this is a photo of a smallport... it has the cover (that goes between the valve covers and over the spark plugs) removed.... but you get the idea.... note the intake manifold.

JohnnyRanger101 · 10-25-2007, 10:25 AM

Toyotaspeed90,

You're exactly right, The one from the corolla has a ribbed intake mani and only 4 runers, the MR2 onehas a T-VIS Stamp and 8 runners... Does this mean I can use the block from the corolla?? Thats all i really want to use off it to keep things simple as possible.. I figure i can use just the block and all the brackets and bolt on accessories from the MR2 and call it good i hope.. I must add that I dont care much for gaining performance in this car mainly being because i really got it for my wifes cousin who lives with us that will be getting her license soon, last thing she needs is a little car that hauls ass but this thing was free and is very nice so couldnt pass it up. Thanks so much for the info guys keep it coming...

MR2 Guru · 10-25-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

guru, huh....?

Please don't be a smart butt, we've already determined that the engine he has is out of an AE92. There is nothing you have said that I do not already know. Just trying to help the guy out, as he is apparently a first-time swapper, and to keep it simple. *No offense need be taken*

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

1990-1991 is what is known as the smallport 4age.... the smallport came out in 1990 and stopped being put in cars in late 1991....

If you want to get technical, the smallport was available in 1992, as I said. It would be in the Prizm GSi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

if you use all of the mr2 electronics the car will run fine and MUCH faster than stock....

This is not true. The smallport engine runs much higher compression, hence the more aggressive timing/fuel maps. Using the MR2 ECU and sensors could cause irreparable damage over time with too much timing/too little fuel.

I'm sorry if I have come off as defensive, but a girl has got to prove herself much more than any man in this business. I hope no offense has been taken.

toyotaspeed90 · 10-25-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 Guru

Please don't be a smart butt, we've already determined that the engine he has is out of an AE92. There is nothing you have said that I do not already know. Just trying to help the guy out, as he is apparently a first-time swapper, and to keep it simple. *No offense need be taken*

If you want to get technical, the smallport was available in 1992, as I said. It would be in the Prizm GSi.

This is not true. The smallport engine runs much higher compression, hence the more aggressive timing/fuel maps. Using the MR2 ECU and sensors could cause irreparable damage over time with too much timing/too little fuel.

I'm sorry if I have come off as defensive, but a girl has got to prove herself much more than any man in this business. I hope no offense has been taken.

i was joking around with the 'guru' part of it.... being that you only had under 40 posts and new(ish) here....

yeah... the fabled 1992 prizm gsi..... it was also map based and almost IMPOSSIBLE to find. either way, your original dates were way off.

the stock mr2 electronics will run it no problem..... yes, they have a higher C/R but using the a good/new o2 sensor will help with that..... also, if necessary using a rising rate adjustable fpr will be fine.... the maps are very close and unless you start to get into big-time modifications the ecu is fine to run it.

and i'm sure you're one of those people who will say that it's impossible to run a smallport on a 4afe ecu...... 6 years and counting and it's damn quick..... longterm damage overtime? i don't think so....

MR2 Guru · 10-25-2007, 12:53 PM

"If it is a 88-92 4A-GE it should bolt in, without problems........ If you have acquired the corolla engine from a year above 1992, it would be called a Smallport Redtop 4AGE."

OMG, no wonder you think I'm a nimrod!! LOL
1992 was SUPPOSED to be 1990. Though, I didn't misprint the first line.
Shoot me now...

The thermostat housing is going to need to be used from the MR2 engine. The smallport housing will not suffice.

Quote:

and i'm sure you're one of those people who will say that it's impossible to run a smallport on a 4afe ecu.

IMHO, swapping Frankenstein parts is not for beginners. You may be able to pull it off, but I definitely would not suggest such for someone new to Toyotas.

Nothing is impossible. I'm also guessing you used misc. sensors FROM the 4A-FE.... Not rocket science. Everyone said the 5VZ-FE wasn't going to work in the MR2, but we made it happen. First 3 in existence - period. One twin-turbo, two single-turbos.

Now that we have totally hijacked this thread, I'll leave it at that.

toyotaspeed90 · 10-25-2007, 04:22 PM

all 4age sensors with the exception of the 4afe map sensor and ait sensor..... the smallports have the later (non clip) sensors on them....

the only frankenstein part about it was the distributor (not sure where it came from... but it is a 4ag dizzy) and the modified ecu