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3sge aw11

110K views 285 replies 18 participants last post by  not12listen 
#1 ·
firstly, no this is NOT the BEAMS engine.

secondly, anyone who suggests using a different engine, please close the browser. :) i am set with this engine and will finish this swap...

thirdly, its a 1st Gen 3sge from an 88 Celica GTS... i chose this engine on purpose...

forthly, anyone who suggests using a different engine, please close the browser. :) i am set with this engine and will finish this swap...

below is the original post concern this swap...
----

i plan on transplanting a 3s-ge into my mr2. i've learned a lot with that little demon out there. i've no doubt that i could learn a lot more in its current standing. i am hitting a noticable limit where i do need more power.

but, as some people know, i'm not a power hungry fiend, and i take what i learn in stages.

so, 140-150hp seems reasonable, and with the fact that i plan on keeping in NA, i can stab the throttle and not force myself to learn finite foot control.

i've talked to a few people about it.

most everyone has said the same thing - get a turbo. it seems that few are listening. i do not like the feel of the turbo. it lags far too much in lower rpm, and the sudden surge of power could easily spell injury (or worse) for me. this is because of my lack of experience driving a turbo.

i've thought about supercharging my mr2. and for a while, it really seemed like the thing to do. but, something has changed that. i didnt like the feeling of increasing the power so suddenly - again, lack of proper foot control.

even after i've driven our AllTrac Celica for a while, and have gotten comfortable with the feel of a turbo, i am still not a fan of the whole 'turbo' thing.

(time to rant!)

one thing i've noticed from most people that increase the power of their motors, they dont put the slightest thought to the brakes.

i recall when i got my mr2, that the first upgrade i did was to the tires (ie. wider and stickier tires), then right to upgrading the brakes. suspension followed in very short order... and, its been a slow process ever since.

this is one reason why i've focussed so much time and effort into upgrading my brakes. hence, the 2 sets of dual piston calipers that are in the front room. i'm going to mount a set on the front and rear, then make my parking brake hydraulic. it should all be quite interesting. i even have the brake master cylinder from a non-abs 91 turbo mr2.

this brake master cylinder has a larger opening for fluid to pass thru. this means i have to press less on the brake pedal to attain the same amount of force exerted on the brakes. and with the fact that there are 2 pistons, it means greater clamping force, which turns into later braking with less effort on my part. also, with this upgrade, i'm also moving over to vented discs front and rear, which means i can balance the braking potential of front vs rear more to what i feel comfortable with.

this is attained thru the purchase and installation of a brake bias adjuster, with a manual dial adjuster mounted in the cabin near the center console. this allows me to be able to adjust the balance of the brakes while driving too!

along the way, i'm going to purchase a TRD LSD for my mr2. running with an open differential really isnt comfortable. and lord knows that i'm going to need it once this brake setup is complete.

in order to properly handle the power i'm planning on producing in my mr2, i'm also going to fit some 225 width tires on the rear.

and now... the area that i know virtually nothing about... transmissions! what sort of gear ratios/acceleration do i want? one would think (myself at that) that Toyota has chosen specific gear ratios for specific reasons. my guess is that the ratios match the power output of the motor its been mated to, to create a comfortable and drivable setup. i can only hope that 1st, 2nd and 3rd have the same aggressive acceleration that my mr2 has currently.

so, in a nutshell, there is the majority of the plans for my mr2 and all the little thoughts bouncing around in my head...
 
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#88 ·
today's progress. this is PURELY for test fitment. this is NOT the final fitment of the pieces you see here.

i am aware that the shifter cables are too long, as is the coolant hose that rests over the transmission. those are already being taken care of.


reducer coupler on the passenger side of the engine bay - coolant filler neck


reducer coupler on the water pump


reducer coupler on the coolant bypass neck - leads to the radiator


reducer coupler on the chassis - leads to the radiator


header and alternator test fitment


header, alternator and coolant hose test fitment


coolant hose test fitment


coolant hose test fitment


coolant hose test fitment - very clear that it needs to be shortened


heat shield fitted over the header


heat shield test fitment - very clear that the shifter cables are too long
 
#90 ·
so, this project is nearly 4 years old. and finally, it is near completion.

the first group of items will all be taken care of this weekend (unless something catastrophic happens).

the 2nd group of items are dependent on specific variables - i sincerely hope they do happen.

the 3rd group of items are (as noted) planned for the first weekend of june - that is when my buddy that does fabrication will be over.

and the final 4 items are the absolute last items that are needed to complete the car.


so, really, the timeline for completion is much shorter than i thought it would be at this point... but, i am THRILLED to see it nearly done. :)


install cold start injector - this weekend
install fuel level - this weekend
install fuel pump - this weekend
install fuel tank - this weekend
new fuel hoses - this weekend
install axles - this weekend
new transmission fluid - this weekend
new heater core hoses - this weekend

replace shifter cables - this weekend
send off 3sge engine harness to be swapped over to the AW11 - this weekend
assemble and install oil bypass filter kit - this weekend

finish front engine mount - first weekend of june
finish exhaust- first weekend of june
finish intake - first weekend of june
build battery box in front trunk - first weekend of june
replace battery - first weekend of june

get gas
install new brake setup
flush brake system
install new tires
 
#92 ·
a local friend is taking care of it. he is an electrical engineer, so i trust his work and i've seen his work. he has a running RS with a full STi swap. he did the swap in his garage on his own.

thanks for the offer though. :)
 
#95 ·
you're in CA and you're sending them out?

I live in a small town and there's at least 3 shops that I can think of that can make custom hydraulic (high pressure) lines.... I wouldn't doubt that they could make any sort of fuel line needed.... same day...

I would be amazed if there aren't any hydraulic shops near you....
 
#96 ·
i live in NorCal. i sent them to SoCal to a company that i trust - i have other products by them and have been very impressed with their level of quality.

i'm sure i could have gotten the lines re-fabricated locally, but not knowing the quality of the local shops is what kept me from doing that.

there are a few hose shops in the next town over, but see my first comment... :)
 
#97 ·
so... the list is printed out... i even put tiny circles next to each item, so i check them off the list when i'm done with them.

here is what i'll be tackling tomorrow.

install cold start injector
install fuel level
install fuel pump
install fuel tank
install new fuel hoses
install new clutch master
install clevis
bleed clutch
install throttle pedal
install throttle cable
drain transmission
install axles
install new transmission fluid
install new heater core hoses
install speedogear lock pin
replace shifter cables
 
#98 · (Edited)
finished:
install fuel level
install fuel pump
install fuel tank
install new fuel hoses
drain transmission
install speedogear lock pin

not finished:
install cold start injector
install new clutch master
install clevis
bleed clutch
install throttle pedal
install throttle cable
install axles
install new transmission fluid
install new heater core hoses
replace shifter cables


it just started raining, and the axles are considerably more difficult to install than i expected.

tomorrow, more work on the Mr2.

----

btw - i had initially planned on taking photos of my progress, but i was so focused on just getting items check off my list (and making actual progress), that zero photos were taken. tomorrow, if time permits, i'll take photos of the overall progress.

also, forgot to mention that the Fuel Pressure Regulator was installed. yeehaw! waiting on my remanufactured fuel lines before i can install my Fuel Pulsation Damper.
 
#99 ·
finished:
install throttle pedal
install throttle cable
install axles
install new heater core hoses
replace shifter cables

not finished:
install cold start injector (cannot find it)
install new clutch master
install clevis (need a 12mm drill bit)
bleed clutch
install new transmission fluid


pix will be up later!
 
#100 · (Edited)
and now... photos of the work done this weekend!


the amount of coolant piping that i had to remove. 12 rings in total.


oh blessed throttle pedal... how i have missed you dearly. :)


what i used to remove those 12 rings worth of coolant piping (recommended by the manufacturer of the piping) - fine toothed hack saw!


both coolant lines in their appropriate placement. the fitment is near ideal!


coolant piping - main focus of the driver's side pipe. yes, the far coolant pipe is making contact with the starter - there is nothing i can do about this unfortunately.


coolant piping on the passenger's side of the engine bay. just to give perspective as per how unique of a pipe is needed for this routing job.


driver's side coolant pipe again. clearly demonstrates how close the coolant neck is to the starter.


rear of the fuel tank. the big ribbed hose with the absolute MOST DIFFICULT hose i have ever dealt with. all other hoses are new with new clamps on them as well.


an overall shot of the engine bay - prior to the header (with heat shield) in for test fitment.


passenger's side axle. again, thanks to my buddy Jordan for the link to the BGB and informing that some 'massaging' with a hammer is required. :)


driver's side axle.


so, something that i am THRILLED that worked out perfectly - when i removed the jack stands and let the Mr2 rest on its own, i looked again and the axles are perfectly FLAT!!! :) it looks as if it was designed to fit in there!

also in the photos are the 8.5mm Magnecor ignition wires. and, unfortunately, my factory AW11 throttle cable is too short, by all of 2 or 3 inches. argh! so, i've already put the wheels in motion to source another (hopefully a bit longer) that will solve that problem. i only purchased enough heater core hose for 1 of the lines, so tomorrow i will go back and buy enough for the other - with that, i will temporarily seal up the coolant system. i will not 'final' seal the coolant system until after all of the fuel lines are in place (they run next to each other). also, i was unable to replace the clutch master and clevis - i want to do both at once and unfortunately i do not have the correct drill for the new clevis bearing.

despite the small items that linger, i am absolutely THRILLED with the progress (especially the axles!).
 
#101 ·
fixed my throttle cable issue.

the factory aw11 NA throttle cable was just a bit too short. i took the portion of the throttle bracket that the cable locks into and rotated it 180 degrees. i now have to have a small custom bracket made it hold it there, which is not a huge deal. but, because of how much length there is, there is some room to play with for its location.

this weekend, i'll be working on the Mr2 some more. at that time, i will take some 'before and after' photos, to demonstrate what i've done.
 
#102 ·
and today, i got my braided stainless steel wrapped fuel lines... :) well, 2 of the 3...



the short line leads from the fuel tank to the fuel filter, and the longer one leads from the fuel filter to the fuel rail.

i took a tape measure and did a very rough measurement of how long of a hose i would need. it turned out to be just about 6 inches longer than the factory line, this is due to the fact that the 3sge rests at an angle, whereas the 4age does not. so, with that extra bit of angle, a bit more line was needed.

i did a quick test fit and the short line threads onto the fuel feed lead from the fuel tank without any problems.
 
#104 ·
#1... you're doing great work..... I can appreciate the work being put into this swap

#2... I'm eating my words as I will now be building an MK1.22 (5sfe swap) in our 86 mr2. Yours is considered an MK1.25

I have my reasons, though different than yours. I won't be as meticulous in getting everything in/installed, but I hope to have mine in/running by mid August.

I take it you used the S54 and stock 2nd gen MR2 axles? Supposedly after it's been lined up & bolted in correctly the axles are a direct fit into the aw11 body.
 
#105 ·
1. thanks. :) its a lot of work, and a lot of time...

2. why are you eating your own words?

regardless of whether you swap over to a 5sfe, 3sge or 3sgte (or anything else), doesn't bug me. :)

yes i put in a s54 (from a 94 Mr2 NA) and stock SW20 NA axles - their spline size and count is identical to the AW11 NA axles.
 
#109 ·
cut the driver's side coolant hose (purple one) a bit more, and installed the heater core hoses.

test fitted the cold air intake that was given to me by Jordan, unfortunately it does not fit with all of the other hoses in the engine bay. so, i'm going to have a super short intake stream. in reverse order, intake manifold, intake coupler, AFM, cone filter. if my estimation is correct, the cone filter will rest above the starter.

that really does limit the space for my super duper oil filter. i'm guessing that i might have enough space above the driver's side axle, behind the AFM or i might have to get really creative with a drill and such... whatever... i'll figure it out.

all of the fuel lines have been tightened down - once and for all. i just wish i could pressure test the fuel system to spot any leaks ahead of time. and i just need 1 more banjo bolt, for the line that leads into the top of the fuel filter.

the heater core lines are also solidly clamped down - i'll pressure test the system at some point in the near future.

removed the entire exhaust system, and discovered exactly how much of a pain in the ass sealing the hose to the thermostat housing will be... gotta see if an 'extended neck' version exists.

put all of the hand brake stuff back together and made sure that my hand brake will actually work - it has not worked in years, so i'm quite excited about this. :)

put the center tunnel (shifter tunnel) cover back on loosely, and as it turns out, i cannot use the 93+ Mr2 factory shifter setup. it is considerably shorter than my stock AW11 shifter (i prefer the factory AW11 setup anyways), but the shorter SW20 setup makes solid contact with the right side of the tunnel cover the entire time that i try to shift into 5th or reverse. over time, that will wear out my shifter boot. so, i'll be re-assembling and re-installing my factory AW11 shifter setup! :) despite the bit of extra throw in the AW11 setup, i've never had any problems with it and it has always served me perfectly.
 
#110 ·
all of the fuel lines have been tightened down - once and for all. i just wish i could pressure test the fuel system to spot any leaks ahead of time. and i just need 1 more banjo bolt, for the line that leads into the top of the fuel filter.
If you have your wiring done then you can turn your key to "on" and then push the AFM flapper door open... it should activate the fuel pump.

otherwise you can apply battery ground to the chasis and then the blue wire on the main connector in the trunk is the fuel pump.... apply 12V and it will turn the pump on
 
#112 ·
well, as i discovered a bit ago, the 93+ Mr2 shifter setup will not clear the AW11 tunnel cover. anytime that i put the shifter into placement for 5th gear or Reverse, it will make solid contact with the right side of the tunnel cover, which over time will rip the shifter boot.

here are photos for comparison of both shifters setup fully with boot and shift knob.

SW20 shift shifter:





AW11 stock shifter:





its very apparent that the factory AW11 shifter is taller and a lot more centered. i already know that i will have a longer throw with the factory AW11 shifter setup, and i am 100% fine with it - in many ways, i prefer it.

also, the fuel system is now 100% complete! i just needed to get the last banjo bolt that locks into the top of the fuel filter, and i got it this past weekend at the local Pick N Pull.
 
#113 ·
If you have access to a grinder & welder, reduce the throw of both your shift and the mechanisms at the transaxle.

When I installed the Corolla XRS 6-speed into my '87, I couldn't access the new reverse gear (which is to the left of 1st). So I had to shorten up the side-to-side linkage like this:











 
#114 ·
If you have access to a grinder & welder, reduce the throw of both your shift and the mechanisms at the transaxle.

When I installed the Corolla XRS 6-speed into my '87, I couldn't access the new reverse gear (which is to the left of 1st). So I had to shorten up the side-to-side linkage like this:











thats a really smart way to fix the shifting issue. :)

in my case, i prefer the factory shifter throw. if/when i build a purpose built track/rally car, i would absolutely do this. :)
 
#116 ·
so... I don't want to go back through 8 pages to find this (especially since Toyotanation lately has been acting up)..... I had some odd findings with at least the S54 trans that I used.

I was set up with a stock AW11 left/right cable and a modified left/right cable for the front/back cable. I found the cable itself was 2" longer than the stock AW11 front/back cable BUT there were problems....

1) it was so much longer that it was almost binding in the bay
2) it wouldn't find the gears properly

So I installed a stock AW11 front/back cable. It was notchy but I could swear I felt every gear.

As it turned out I was 100% incorrect (and I even had 2 others check and they swore they could feel all 5 and reverse as well.... apparently we were all wrong). So I disconnected the cable itself and made the left/right cable move to first and I watched where the shifter assembly moved the cable to (cable still connected to the trans). In fact I even had the shifter assembly push against the edge of the cable to move it into first..... so I learned the length of the cable as a whole means nothing.... the stock AW11 cable was more than long enough to reach from the trans to the shifter assembly... but the difference is in the inner cable.

So if you find that you're having problems actually getting into the various gears then you will have to lengthen the inner cable. I did this by using 2 coupling nuts and some 1/4" allthread. Locked the nuts together on the allthread then welded it to the front-most section of the cable. After cooled, I cut the cable itself and now have and adjustable inner cable. Works flawlessly and cost about $4.
 
#117 ·
that's some good work you've done. :)

i ran into issues with the shift cables too. tried aw11 cables, and i thought they were too short, so i bought a set of sw20 cables. turns out 1 of sw20 cables was fine, the other was too long. so, i have a mixed set. unfortunately, i do not recall exactly which i have, otherwise i would post it.

i've tested shifting into each gear numerous times - everything grabs and i can hear/feel it. so, if i'm wrong, the i'll be doing sometime similar to what you've done for your setup.

but, i do not know if there is any massive difference between the 94+ sw20 S54 and the previous years S54...
 
#118 ·
yup. the last post was vague on purpose. :) and today, it'll make a LOT more sense... with photos too!!! :)


a pre-bent silicone hose.


the problem area - the reducer coupler makes contact with the a/c compressor constantly. not ideal.


mate that 'awesomely exciting' piece with the pre-bent coupler - and the scheme is becoming more clear.


oh... what's this?! something taking shape!


ah ha! no more solid contact! WOOHOO!!!


early fitment. very nice!


a close-up of the thermostat housing.


after a bit of trimming...


a bit of a close-up...

so yeah. i hope that tube of aluminum makes more sense now. :)
 
#119 ·
Just to be honest, i think you've made that way more difficult than it needs to be.

I can't tell from the photos but at least the 5sfe has the built in oil cooler.... so there's no need to route the system via the stock lines..... in fact, no reason at all.

When I did my 1.22 my outlet was just about in the same location. I had a short pipe as well (but mine was fabricated from some spare AW11 body/center pipes I had)... I removed the stock oil cooler, used the stock 90* and just angled it upwards a bit. Took a stock hose (don't recall which one), cut it to length, and it all fit together just fine. Less couplers also lend to less chance of a leak/failure.
 
#120 ·
i'm known for making things overly difficult and complex, so i take no offense to your words. :) and, i do agree that it is more complicated than most people would have their setup.

the work i did most recently is for the engine coolant, nothing else.

the 86-89 Celica GTS did not come with an oil cooler. that being said, i did find a 93 Celica GTS (5SFE) that had an oil cooler at pick n pull, which i nabbed. i do have it, but have not sent it off for cleaning yet. once that is done, i will bolt it on (and take photos of course).

unfortunately, with the 3sge from a FWD Celica GTS, there is no single hose that exists (that i know of) that would work to connect my radiator cap housing (just above cylinder 1, intake side) to the thermostat housing (under the cylinder 1, exhaust side). hence the overly complicated hose situation that i have.

at one point, i was talking with a buddy of mine about having an 'extender' tube welded onto the factory thermostat housing. but, decided on this path due to the fact that i could do it myself in a much shorter time span.

as one can imagine, with not being able to drive my Mr2 for the past 4 years, i'm a bit overly anxious to get it running. so, wherever i can save time (and not cause hell on myself), i will.
 
#121 ·
you should have considered the SW20 water outlet on the side of the head instead and used the SW20 filler neck.... it's just a fillerneck that runs down tothe engine..... nothing else (unlike the AW11 one that's basically an adapter between 2 hoses.

but.... based on the photos I can't tell if that would work for you either. What I can see that would work.... is removing that FWD fan sensor then screwing in a port for the SW20 filler neck.... installing it over the alternator.

I probably shouldn't say this.... (and I wasn't as meticulous as you)... but my 5sfe MK1.22 swap took about 6 1/2 weeks from getting the idea to completion.
 
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