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#1 Old 01-27-2009, 08:23 PM
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3sge aw11

firstly, no this is NOT the BEAMS engine.

secondly, anyone who suggests using a different engine, please close the browser. i am set with this engine and will finish this swap...

thirdly, its a 1st Gen 3sge from an 88 Celica GTS... i chose this engine on purpose...

forthly, anyone who suggests using a different engine, please close the browser. i am set with this engine and will finish this swap...

below is the original post concern this swap...
----

i plan on transplanting a 3s-ge into my mr2. i've learned a lot with that little demon out there. i've no doubt that i could learn a lot more in its current standing. i am hitting a noticable limit where i do need more power.

but, as some people know, i'm not a power hungry fiend, and i take what i learn in stages.

so, 140-150hp seems reasonable, and with the fact that i plan on keeping in NA, i can stab the throttle and not force myself to learn finite foot control.

i've talked to a few people about it.

most everyone has said the same thing - get a turbo. it seems that few are listening. i do not like the feel of the turbo. it lags far too much in lower rpm, and the sudden surge of power could easily spell injury (or worse) for me. this is because of my lack of experience driving a turbo.

i've thought about supercharging my mr2. and for a while, it really seemed like the thing to do. but, something has changed that. i didnt like the feeling of increasing the power so suddenly - again, lack of proper foot control.

even after i've driven our AllTrac Celica for a while, and have gotten comfortable with the feel of a turbo, i am still not a fan of the whole 'turbo' thing.

(time to rant!)

one thing i've noticed from most people that increase the power of their motors, they dont put the slightest thought to the brakes.

i recall when i got my mr2, that the first upgrade i did was to the tires (ie. wider and stickier tires), then right to upgrading the brakes. suspension followed in very short order... and, its been a slow process ever since.

this is one reason why i've focussed so much time and effort into upgrading my brakes. hence, the 2 sets of dual piston calipers that are in the front room. i'm going to mount a set on the front and rear, then make my parking brake hydraulic. it should all be quite interesting. i even have the brake master cylinder from a non-abs 91 turbo mr2.

this brake master cylinder has a larger opening for fluid to pass thru. this means i have to press less on the brake pedal to attain the same amount of force exerted on the brakes. and with the fact that there are 2 pistons, it means greater clamping force, which turns into later braking with less effort on my part. also, with this upgrade, i'm also moving over to vented discs front and rear, which means i can balance the braking potential of front vs rear more to what i feel comfortable with.

this is attained thru the purchase and installation of a brake bias adjuster, with a manual dial adjuster mounted in the cabin near the center console. this allows me to be able to adjust the balance of the brakes while driving too!

along the way, i'm going to purchase a TRD LSD for my mr2. running with an open differential really isnt comfortable. and lord knows that i'm going to need it once this brake setup is complete.

in order to properly handle the power i'm planning on producing in my mr2, i'm also going to fit some 225 width tires on the rear.

and now... the area that i know virtually nothing about... transmissions! what sort of gear ratios/acceleration do i want? one would think (myself at that) that Toyota has chosen specific gear ratios for specific reasons. my guess is that the ratios match the power output of the motor its been mated to, to create a comfortable and drivable setup. i can only hope that 1st, 2nd and 3rd have the same aggressive acceleration that my mr2 has currently.

so, in a nutshell, there is the majority of the plans for my mr2 and all the little thoughts bouncing around in my head...
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#2 Old 02-05-2009, 02:05 PM
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just yesterday i purchased the Speed Source MK1.5 engine mount kit (all 4 mounts). wow. its not cheap at all. i also purchased a new OEM exedy clutch - i dont need anything too aggressive, as this engine will go thru a 3000 mile break-in period and i do want to break it in smoothly.

after the break-in and if everything checks out, i have no doubt that i will absolutely destroy that clutch in short order.

thankfully, i already have a transmission waiting for this setup at the shop where my Mr2 is as well (s54 from a 91-95 NA Mr2). i'm curious if TRD makes a gear set for it though... i've already seen the graphs of the t50 (ae86 corolla) TRD gearset and it looks ideally suited for my driving.
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#3 Old 03-03-2009, 11:41 AM
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Dude it sounds like you knowe your stuff and this is going to be a great car once done. i for one would like to see some pics of the rebuild, as this is the type of thing that i want to get into.
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#4 Old 03-03-2009, 12:56 PM
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i just have ideas. there are plenty of people that know a LOT more than i do...

i chose this engine because of the following:
1. squared setup (identical bore and stroke)
2. SMOG legal
3. inexpensive engine
4. parts are VERY easy to come by, and the parts are inexpensive
5. it produces just enough power to be more useful than the 4age, but not so much as to upset the balance of my aw11.
6. i hate V engines (ie. v6, v8, etc). yes, they make power. and i COULD cram a small v6 into my aw11... but, i hate working on V engines.


one other note is that this is only version 1 of this project. i already have plans for version 2, as i know that i will blow up the 3sge. but, in all honesty, i will not share any details of version 2... basically, i dont want anyone to steal my plans and go forward with it.

and one other small note... the total weight increase by swapping over to the 3sge + s54... roughly 50lbs. i will not have a/c or power steering though, so that will help save weight. in fact, the only item on the engine that'll need a belt (other than timing) is the alternator.
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#5 Old 03-03-2009, 01:08 PM
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the first few photos i took of it, when i initially bought the engine. quite dirty!







this is what it looks like at the moment.











i purchased brand new (from toyota) water pump, oil pump, full gasket rebuild kit, timing belt kit (the belt, the tensioner and the tensioner spring). the rotating assembly has been balanced to within 1/1000th of 1 gram. every cylinder was checked for perfect roundness. all brand new piston rings, rod and main bearings... and new thrust washers.

the block was also mangafluxed to verify its strength and integrity. the head was pressure tested for leaks as well. both the head and block were decked flat... the valves were given a nice 5 angle valve job, and every valve seat was cleaned and re-ground to mate perfectly.

its still using the stock cams, rods and crank. and i will still use the factory ECU on the factory tune.

at this point, the engine is better than when toyota built it 21 years ago...

so yeah... i've got a bit of time invested in it...
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#6 Old 03-04-2009, 01:28 AM
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Looking good. Do I recall correctly that Josh is doing the work? That should make for a very fun AW11 and in keeping with your goals.

1989 Corolla SR5, 4A-F, 5spd, ~210k miles, 18.007s@83mph

WTB: 3sge camshafts ... PM me!
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#7 Old 03-04-2009, 01:36 AM
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yep, josh is doing the work. it was his machinist that did all the fine tuning/cleaning to the engine.

nothing against josh at all, but he was trying, off and on, to get me to do a small ball bearing turbo setup on a 4agze powerplant. needless to say, that just isnt me. so, i stuck to my original plan...

the suspension on my aw11 is pretty well set, and while its not the most bad-ass or aggressive setup, its pretty well balanced. the brakes certainly will need to be revamped though.
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#8 Old 03-04-2009, 02:16 PM
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If by vented you mean cross drilled or slotted -- beware, street use of these rotors almost always (regardless of brand) turns into cracking. If they are just vented, you should only purchase the rear as the front stock are vented.

Considering the weight of the mr2, I would be a little concerned with too much braking power and having little room before locking up the wheels.

1) 2004 IS300 Manual/LSD/Sportdesign 2) 2010 Corolla S 5 speed 3) 1986 MR2 "MK1.22" 5sfe/s54 swap 3) 1995 Ford Explorer 4x4, TT/AAL/custom shackle lift, 31"s
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#9 Old 03-05-2009, 08:50 PM
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i do not mean slotted or cross drilled when i say vented. i mean rotors that have more than 1 mating surface for the brake pads - ie NON-solid rotors.

btw - i've split cross drilled rotors on my 86 Mr2 already. i know to keep away from them.

well, the point of the brake setup is to put MORE of the braking duty on the rear, instead of the factory setup massive front bias. this would allow me more time BEFORE the fronts would lockup, and give me the brake balance that i prefer. at times i've considered running with stock front pads and Axxis Ultimate (or similar) rear pads... but, i'm sure that'd i'd glaze the front pads in very short order...

and yes, i've already fully glazed a set of Axxis Metal Master pads in 3 runs of a local twisty road... so, i have an idea of what it feels like and why i choose specific pads, which is also one reason why i would NEVER run factory pads again.
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#10 Old 03-05-2009, 08:56 PM
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btw - here of photos of a REAR rotor on my Mr2... keep in mind, this is after my standard canyon run style driving... with a stock 4age engine.

the split rotor ON my mr2


after removing the rotor from my mr2


you can see the heat soak from the split
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#11 Old 03-05-2009, 09:46 PM
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that actually starts from street driving where you use the brakes then have to stop quite a bit, causing hot spots..... slotted/cross drilled are meant for track use only otherwise they will start to crack.

I use ceramic pads.... softer like organic, don't heat soak as bad, and don't wear a rotor like metallic. However, the first time you get them hot they smoke like CRAZY.... I've had them smoking hard after a short run in the local twistys but they still hadn't faded

1) 2004 IS300 Manual/LSD/Sportdesign 2) 2010 Corolla S 5 speed 3) 1986 MR2 "MK1.22" 5sfe/s54 swap 3) 1995 Ford Explorer 4x4, TT/AAL/custom shackle lift, 31"s
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#12 Old 03-05-2009, 10:02 PM
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no offense, but this is stuff that i've known for years.

which is one of the reasons why i only use blank rotors since that little event. and you can see my braided steel brake lines as well. i pretty much only use ATE Super Blue brake fluid as well.

so yeah. i'm certainly not dumb when it comes to brakes...
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#13 Old 02-13-2010, 01:08 PM
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lots of time has passed, and very little progress has been made.

i've discovered that the $475 Speed Source engine mount kit, for the most part, will not work for my swap. thankfully, i have a good friend that is also a fabricator, so he'll be assisting in creating new (side) engine mounts for this swap.

my fabricator buddy will be taking my AW11 to his house in the next few weeks or so, to take care of welding in the side mounts and getting the engine set in properly.

so, once there is an update, i'll post again with pics.

in the meantime, here are some photos of the test fitting that has been done...





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#14 Old 03-13-2010, 04:26 PM
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the weekend of the 20th/21st of march (ie. next weekend) my Mr2 will be going to a friend's house adn we'll be welding in the engine mounts and putting the engine & transmission into their final resting spots!

i'll take photos once the engine and transmission are situated.

still need to source a throttle cable from a 91-95 NA Mr2. then i get to sort out fuel lines, coolant lines and the shifter cables.
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#15 Old 03-16-2010, 09:29 PM
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a bit of progress made today, and being that i got home from work a bit earlier than expected, i had some time available to work on the 3sge a bit! here are the photos of the progress.



though you cannot see it, i cleaned the TVIS plate a lot! i even had to disassemble it a few times! it was entirely clogged with sludge, oil residue and dirt. now its much cleaner and the action of the TVIS butterfly plates is much smoother!

the TVIs plate required a bit of PB Blaster, a phillips head screwdriver, a shop rag and about 45 minutes in total.




the fuel rail is missing 1 injector, 2 bolts, 2 of the insulators and REALLY needs to be cleaned. as you can see, the Cold Start Injector is not connected at the moment (ie. the orange-ish hole under the TVIS badge). the EGR hardline is connected at the moment (brass pipe on the right).




the dust plate is resting on top of the transmission (just found it today!). the coolant neck is resting almost exactly where it will finally rest. you can only see a TINY glimpse of the TVIS plate that i clean from this angle - its resting in between the head and the intake manifold. the intake manifold is absolutely filthy. debating taking it all to a shop to be professionally cleaned.
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