seeking advise - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

rado76 · 03-22-2010, 06:27 AM

Hi guys
I am not really often on this forum but i have to admit i find it really nice and useful.I will try to visit it more often from now on.Here is a question that i would like to ask as i am not really familiar with engines as much as i would like to

I have got some parts as a present if i could use them at all.A friend of mine has a Mitsubishi 3000 GT and has gone on upgrading the engine .He has replaced almost everything including pistons,rods,cams,manifolds,turbos,coolers .He is actually keeping only the engine block and the head ( temporary).So i have got his original turbos,coolers pipings,oil pipings etc.
So the question is -Can i fit his turbos and coolers onto my 3SGE and boost it with only 5psi for the start until i get my new pistons,rods and so on?
The idea is to fit the 2 turbos ( off-course do some work on my manifold so could fit them )
without boosting them for now.I have seen on some Russian site a MR2 with Mitsubishi Turbo fit on it.How much boost can my piston manage with and is it possible at all ???
I will be vary grateful if some one could advise me on that

Thanks in advance

TheEngineer · 03-22-2010, 09:29 AM

well first off you wouldnt want to run the twins turbos...just the single. And second, IMO that turbo would be a wast of time with the size of it. But in order to mount it you would first have to get the manifold to have the proper flange for it and then also make a custom downpipe in order to connect to the exhaust. You also have to remember you would need to upgrade the fuel system as well as the piping in order to install the IC in the proper place. With alot of custom fabbing im sure it could work. I just dont see the result being something desirable or worth the effort.

And i dont know too much about the 3s-ge but i know it also matters what year car you have and what GEN 3s-ge you have

rado76 · 03-22-2010, 12:47 PM

Thanks for your quick reply .I know it will probably be a pain in the ... but there is one reason i would like to do it that way and it is because everyone goes for a single turbo and i would like to do it different.My MR2 is 1992 and the engine is 3SGE -156 HP.It runs well and i could easily replace the engine and fit 3SGTE in it but many people have that one and i just wanna make it different from the rest. I will get the flanges too .The thing is that i am from Bulgaria and here it is not that expensive to pay someone to do some work on the manifold and it will not cost me a fortune and second ,i am getting all that stuff for free which makes it not that bad idea .
Do you have an idea whats the max. boost that i can put on my pistons without roasting them

***MR2Jedi*** · 03-22-2010, 01:10 PM

I doubt there's enough exhaust energy to run 2 turbos.
As far as how much boost the stock internals the 3sge can handle, it's all about tuning, engine management (which will be a major issue with the set up your proposing) and intake charge cooling.

TheEngineer · 03-22-2010, 07:07 PM

like he said, i mentioned not doing twin turbo because it is actually less efficient than running a single alone. You will see better gains on a single then twin. and i dont even know how you would fit all the IC piping in the engine bay and mount those at the same time. Trust me if you are going to do anything at all, stick with mounting it single

rado76 · 03-23-2010, 04:08 AM

Thanks a lot guys.I see your point and i really appreciate your advises .I know that running a single one would be easier but as i said i would like to do it twin cos' as far as i know it has never been done at least here in BG

I will think about your advises once again.What changes do i have to do with the engine head in order to convert NA into Turbo ? As far as i know the 3SGE head is generally the same as 3SGTE except for tha valvs,cams and the rest of the internals ?
Am i right ? The question is can i use it the way it is now as i am not running after some great HP gain,but some extra power and fun ?
Thanks once again for your great help

mr2tim · 04-29-2010, 07:17 PM

Hey Bulgaria, (near Germany?)

Not withstanding the really good advice previously given if your going to "damn the torpedos" and proceed your going to have steep learning curve "where no man has gone before" (American terminolgy)

Twin exhausts manifolds providing 2 independent systems, 2 separate 02 sensors to monitor oxygen levels, a stand alone controller(s) to monitor both systems, upgraded injector outputs, possibly lower compression pistons (depending on those turbo outputs).

Considering the power levels your apt to be producing you'll need to look at forged connecting rods as well as a forged crankshaft, you may want to look at improved oil cooling (2 turbos = lotta heat), personally I'd suggest an aluminum flywheel for faster spool ups..

So Mr, Rado, your now making serious Horsepower and can play with the big boys with expensive toys. It ain't gonna be cheap.

We have this saying in America buddy, how fast do you wanna go? it relates to how much your gonna be spending. Spend big go fast or go home.

Sounds like your headed down the Big Spender highway.

Happy Motoring.

not12listen · 05-27-2010, 10:31 PM

5psi is about as high as you want to push on a factory ECU/tune. at 7psi and above, the cast pistons really do take a lot of punishment, and will fail over time.

do NOT swap over to turbo cams - the NA cams have higher lift and longer duration than the Turbo cams.

the 2nd gen 3SGE you have, also does not have TVIS (like the 1st gen). instead, you have ACIS (same as 1987-1992 Supra). no need to change anything there, as it manages itself quite nicely.

even though the 3SGE rods are cast, they are still quite strong.

the head gasket is the same between the 3sge and 3sgte - so, no need to worry there either.

for the time being, keep the boost low (5psi). when you upgrade the pistons and rods (with forged pieces), you can then increase the boost.

i would recommend looking into a separate oil cooler just for the turbo, and if possible, look into an air-to-water intercooler setup. this setup is on the celica gt4.

the air-to-air intercooler setup requires a lot of piping, and is not very efficient. if you get above 350hp, then air-to-water will reach its limit and you will want to use air-to-air.

as stated above, with a twin turbo setup, it would be difficult to build up enough exhaust flow to make it worthwhile. you could do something very unique and look into Twin Charging it (ie. Supercharger and Turbocharger). with a Twin Charged setup, you get all of the boost from the supercharger for low to mid rpms, and the turbo takes over for mid to high rpms.

if you pursue the twin charged setup, a few vehicles have already done it.
http://www.club4ag.com/faq_and_tech_...ifications.htm

it was mainly done with the 4ag platform, but a few Rally cars have also used this sort of setup. it is VERY complicated, but fast beyond belief.

http://sccaforums.com/forums/storage/52/389917/s47.jpg
Lancia... perhaps the Delta S4?

http://media.photobucket.com/image/t...winCharged.jpg
Pontiac GTP

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