I've asked some questions on here and received some good help so far, most everyone seems knowledgable about these cars. I'll try to make this story short but the reason for this thread is so I'm not making several threads asking tons of questions and causing general frustration in the community. I payed way more than I should have for an 89 MR2 about 4 months ago. The car had 188k on it and I was dying for an 89 in red, so I bought what I thought was a decent car that needed maybe $1000 in parts and maybe 75 hours of work to be 100% "restored" so to speak. Unfortunatly I bought a dud car....again...project cars hate me....the MR2 started having overheating problems and soon the water pump failed and the oil sending unit started leaking heavily (the previous owner had a ton of receipts for things like this, he either got screwed over by the shop he took it to, or he fooled me with false documents).
I decided I'd pull the engine in my garage and disassemble and inspect it before reinstalling it with a new water pump, oil sending unit, gaskets, starter, alternator, etc etc. The more I get into this engine bay the worse it gets, I'm pretty sure I'm at the point of having to replace just about everything in the engine bay and rewire some if not most of the car because the more I dig, the more aftermarket wiring I find.
I played with the idea of doing the 20v swap, but the reality is I want to daily drive this car for a while, maybe a year, until I get something else and put this one away as my collector car to share with my kids and at old school JDM car shows in the future. So my plan now is to build the 4A-GE to make a little more power reliably with things like slightly higher compression pistons, lighter stronger rods, aluminum flywheel, stage 1 or 2 clutch, maybe some slightly more agressive cams, better valve springs, possibly even ITBs if I can find a bolt on kit that doesn't require hours of tuning just to set the idle.
As the car stands now: I have drained the coolant, although probably not correctly. Drained the oil. Removed 99% of the wiring harness from its connections to the engine (I can't get to the 1 wire sensor that runs along the top of the timing cover and somewhere behind the A/C pump, I think this is a knock sensor). Removed the intake, throttle body, and intake manifold. Removed the fuel rail and injectors. Taken out the battery and alternator. Disconnected what vaccum lines I could (they're 21 years old and have welded themselves to their connections). I thought I'd be able to take the engine out the top of the car, but after a few attempts it's obvious it's not going to work and I'll have to go out the bottom with the transmission still attached. I'm dreading this since I'm afraid if I take everything in the engine bay apart, it'll never go back together correctly. I have some training in the automotive field as I'm a student at a local college majoring in automotive, but I've only been taking classes for a year so I don't know everything yet. Based on what I've written, what's the best course of action to take next? I'm worried about taking all the vaccum lines apart by cutting them off because I don't know if I can just buy new ones or if I'll get them back on in the right places. Any help is appreciated, I'm on the verge of giving up even though I don't want to. This car is trying to kill me, but I want to fix it up and save it.
Gonna say you have guts for a kid in pulling the engine and finding out what you have. I admire that!
I have been a Mark 1 owner and AVID racer for 21 years and may be able to offer some insight into what is, and what will be, in restoring this car.
First off, unless you know for sure, the water pump may NOT have failed. Insofar as this mid-engined car has about 30+ feet of coolant lines and the bleeding procedure IS complicated and problematic to say the least. Quite often new owners blow a headgasket by simply not having enuff coolant.
This car's distributor has a O ring at the engine and often leaks onto the oil sending unit location, often looking like a oil sender leak. Co-incidently there is also a oil seal inside the cap which fails and also leaks at the exact same location. (Change the lower O ring when engine is removed)
Replacing the water pump IS a good idea at this point no matter what, doing this with the engine installed is a experiece you will honestly NEVER forget. I would also STRONGLY suggest a new timing belt and tensioner bearing and spring, as well as the front crankshaft seal.
The alternator and starter are easily accessible and honestly I'd wait until failure. Your call, your car.
I am sorry to hear of aftermarket wiring.! This is often very difficult and time consuming to troubleshoot as well as understand. My Dad was an electrician, it's eay to me.
As it stands now if you dis-connect the tranny the engine can be removed from the top. (disconnection of half-shafts and shifter tree is required)
Clutches? LOL!! These cars are woofully undersized and drag starts should undenyably be on the no-no list unless you have the $400-700 setups. Aluminum flywheels offer fast reving capabilities and have NOTHING to do with clutch behavior.
I do NOT recommend "consumer" engine rebuilds as they are costly and poorly done unless you have vast experience and a full repair shop to work in. A 20v swap is even more complicated.
Do a compression check and determine if a new headgasket is required.
The wire you may not see under the distributor may be the oil sender sensor?
You mention a NA 4A-GE target? Forget Knock sensors as they only exist in the Supercharged models.
I have all the 1/8" vacuum line diagrams so have no fear about those.
Although I am professionally a Construction Tecnologist (BGSU) I have spend 45 years as a hobby mechanic to support my racing adventures. I'm not computer savy and would ask that we correspond via email for picture and Service Manual exchanges at plandcsataol.com.
Tim
Boca Raton, Fl
ToyZ RacZing
A Toyota Race Team since 1986
*************************
89 SC Race Prepared/Street Licensed
88 SC Street car
87 NA Hardtop Drag Car
87 NA Street Car Sunroof
86 AT NA Parts car
87 V6 Fiero Race Car
95 Camaro Z-28 Race/Street
83 Celica Autocross Prepped
70 Chevy Nova 396/325HP-Drag
64 Olds F-85 Drag Car
Gonna say you have guts for a kid in pulling the engine and finding out what you have. I admire that!
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
First off, unless you know for sure, the water pump may NOT have failed. Insofar as this mid-engined car has about 30+ feet of coolant lines and the bleeding procedure IS complicated and problematic to say the least. Quite often new owners blow a headgasket by simply not having enuff coolant.
The water pump had coolant leaking from underneath it from what I could tell when I had it on the lift, I already got a brand new OEM one from Toyota with all the gaskets, I figure I might as well replace it no matter what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
This car's distributor has a O ring at the engine and often leaks onto the oil sending unit location, often looking like a oil sender leak. Co-incidently there is also a oil seal inside the cap which fails and also leaks at the exact same location. (Change the lower O ring when engine is removed)
Hadn't thought about that, I guess I'll find out whenever I can manage to get the engine out. I'll probably put in a new oil sending unit anyway as preventative maintinance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
The alternator and starter are easily accessible and honestly I'd wait until failure. Your call, your car.
Most of the winding inside it is pretty torn up, unfortunatly I know these alternators don't last long due to water coming right in the bonnet vent on to the alternator when it rains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
I am sorry to hear of aftermarket wiring.! This is often very difficult and time consuming to troubleshoot as well as understand. My Dad was an electrician, it's eay to me.
I'm taking an automotive electrical class currently, so this will hopefully be more time consuming than difficult, I'm sure I'll be asking for help once I get to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
As it stands now if you dis-connect the tranny the engine can be removed from the top. (disconnection of half-shafts and shifter tree is required)
I spent most of the weekend trying to get it out but it just isn't having any of it, I think it'll be easier to just go out the bottom so I can make sure I don't break anything on the transmission or engine when sperating them. Not the way I wanted to do it, but finding parts for mine has been hard so I'd rather not break anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
Clutches? LOL!! These cars are woofully undersized and drag starts should undenyably be on the no-no list unless you have the $400-700 setups. Aluminum flywheels offer fast reving capabilities and have NOTHING to do with clutch behavior.
I hate drag racing, it bores me, I'd want a slightly better clutch if I did the engine upgrades I want and I hope to take it to the local road courses a few times a year just to have some fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
Do a compression check and determine if a new headgasket is required.
I had about 145 across the board when I did it a few months ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
The wire you may not see under the distributor may be the oil sender sensor?
You mention a NA 4A-GE target? Forget Knock sensors as they only exist in the Supercharged models.
OK. I guess it could possibly be the sending sensor, I have a lot of trouble getting under my car since it's lowered to about an inch off the ground and I only have standard sized jacks and stands, I'll try to take another look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2tim
I have all the 1/8" vacuum line diagrams so have no fear about those.
They all need replacing, even the big ones, hopefully I can get replacement line somewhere.
After looking around in the engine bay some more it looks like there is a central "hub" that most of the larger vaccum lines go into (they're coming off the cooling lines from under the car and a few other spots). This hub sits on top of the transmission, if it possible to just unbolt this hub of stuff from the top of the transmission? Or do I need to disassemble it all line by line? Also, is there a guide somewhere online or does anyone have information on the correct way to disconnect the shift linkages, etc so I don't break or damage anything? I'm a little worried to just attack it if there is a certain proceedure to it. Any help on these things is appreciated!
As far as taking thing apart and remembering where they go, I try to put bolts back in the same hole it came out of (where I can), .
I use various sizes of plastic containers to put parts in and label the tops with masking tape and a sharpie.
I also label wire ends. vacuum hoses, water lines and electrical connectors with tape and a sharpie.
I even take pictures before I break things down and save them in my computer for later reference.
Helps me big time.
As far as taking thing apart and remembering where they go, I try to put bolts back in the same hole it came out of (where I can), .
I use various sizes of plastic containers to put parts in and label the tops with masking tape and a sharpie.
I also label wire ends. vacuum hoses, water lines and electrical connectors with tape and a sharpie.
I even take pictures before I break things down and save them in my computer for later reference.
Helps me big time.
I've been doing all that, thanks.
My question(s) still stand, if anyone knows a weblink to a how-to type guide or knows off the top of their head, I'd appreciate it. Google searching is revealing much aside from what I already have written down.
Got everything put back together, primed the engine, poured in the coolant and went to start the engine today...
Brand new water pump started dumping coolant everywhere, engine fired up ran for about 4 seconds then locked up and wont turn over now, sprayed oil from somewhere on the bottom or back side of the engine where I can't see exactly where it's coming from...I installed brand new gaskets and seals on everything, I don't understand how the engine just decided to pop everything at once.
I'm beyond frusterated and depressed at this point, does anyone have any wisdom they'd be willing to share as to why my car hates me and won't work no matter how hard I try.
one thing is, you can do it like a submariner does it: by the book. make your self a list of things to check/adjust/fix. stick to the list.
you can also go under the car with a 10/12/14/17/19 mm spanner (wrench) and corresponding set of sockets and ratchet and tighten EVERYTHING. of course, i would recommend factory torque specs, but you are hunting-down leaks and possible future failures.
(this just dawned on me) dude-
do you have a BGB?!??! it's one of the most important tools to have when working on these cars!!!
__________________
1/2 a tank of V-Power gas+ 1/2 tankful of fuel with Techroline= V-Tec gas??? Speed and grip walk a very thin line of balance. If a car feels like it's on rails, then you're probably not going fast enough.
As far as taking thing apart and remembering where they go, I try to put bolts back in the same hole it came out of (where I can), .
I use various sizes of plastic containers to put parts in and label the tops with masking tape and a sharpie.
I also label wire ends. vacuum hoses, water lines and electrical connectors with tape and a sharpie.
I even take pictures before I break things down and save them in my computer for later reference.
Helps me big time.
and to add to this:
i've set-up a video camera on a tripod to record myself in a disassembly phase just to document how something (that seemed very difficult) was reverse engineered before. it has helped with things like firearms, cars, and sensitive electronic devices in the past!
__________________
1/2 a tank of V-Power gas+ 1/2 tankful of fuel with Techroline= V-Tec gas??? Speed and grip walk a very thin line of balance. If a car feels like it's on rails, then you're probably not going fast enough.
one thing is, you can do it like a submariner does it: by the book. make your self a list of things to check/adjust/fix. stick to the list.
you can also go under the car with a 10/12/14/17/19 mm spanner (wrench) and corresponding set of sockets and ratchet and tighten EVERYTHING. of course, i would recommend factory torque specs, but you are hunting-down leaks and possible future failures.
(this just dawned on me) dude-
do you have a BGB?!??! it's one of the most important tools to have when working on these cars!!!
Yes I have a 1000+ page PDF file for both 88 and 89 and I've followed it religiously. This car is trying to commit suicide I think, I feel like I own the Devil AW11 (a la Devil Z).
Water leak.........
You mentioned gaskets but not "o" rings in the water pump replacement. There are TWO "o" rings that require meticulous cleaning prior to replacement, if you have not replaced them you may have to look at this for a leak cause. Also on some NA Mark 1's I have seen owners use a huge screwdriver to leverage the alternator belt tension. In doing so the the tube at the rear of the water pump often loosens and leak. This is under pressure and will leak plenty.
As for the oil at the rear of the engine you didn't mention you did any work there, therefore you might look to the lines going and coming from the oil cooler and the oil pan? There are no oil lines in other external positions.
As for the "lock-up"? Can you turn the engine using the nut on the front of the crank pulley? If you dropped any items into the bottom of the timing covers it lands on the timing belt gear and will produce a locked up senario. Try turning the engine slowly this way. If it's truly locked up start a front of engine dis-assembly first.
Remember this engine is a non-interference engine, the pistons don't hit the cyl head as do other cars when the timing belts blows.
Keep us informed as to your investigations ok? We're here for ya buddy!!
The Following User Says Thank You to mr2tim For This Useful Post:
Water leak.........
You mentioned gaskets but not "o" rings in the water pump replacement. There are TWO "o" rings that require meticulous cleaning prior to replacement, if you have not replaced them you may have to look at this for a leak cause. Also on some NA Mark 1's I have seen owners use a huge screwdriver to leverage the alternator belt tension. In doing so the the tube at the rear of the water pump often loosens and leak. This is under pressure and will leak plenty.
As for the oil at the rear of the engine you didn't mention you did any work there, therefore you might look to the lines going and coming from the oil cooler and the oil pan? There are no oil lines in other external positions.
As for the "lock-up"? Can you turn the engine using the nut on the front of the crank pulley? If you dropped any items into the bottom of the timing covers it lands on the timing belt gear and will produce a locked up senario. Try turning the engine slowly this way. If it's truly locked up start a front of engine dis-assembly first.
Remember this engine is a non-interference engine, the pistons don't hit the cyl head as do other cars when the timing belts blows.
Keep us informed as to your investigations ok? We're here for ya buddy!!
Since I cooled off a little today I took a look and it looks like the little 10mm nuts on the steel line going into the water pump are leaking, is this what you're talking about with the belt pulling the pump a little loose? As for gaskets my OEM water pump came with one large o-ring (I put this on the water pump where it bolts to the steel line), one squarish shaped gasket (I assumed this went on the steel line as well, am I wrong?), and two smaller ones I didn't use since the old one didn't have small ones anywhere (did I need these and just not know it? they're about a half inch in diameter). My OEM pump didn't come with a new o-ring for the part that goes into the block so I cleaned and reused the old one (it truely was in good shape but I have an extra distributor o-ring that looks like it's the same thing, I might try using that I suppose, what do you think?) but I'm thinking now that was a mistake...
The oil leak was just me being dumb and not turning the oil cooling line into the pan the correct direction so it shot oil (I was somehow off by like a half a thread, it doesn't feel stripped though, very odd indeed).
As for not being an interference engine...I have the N/A 4A-GE I could of swore 10:1 compression would be an interference system, am I wrong?
My last question is since I'm using an engine with 188k miles on it, is it ok/safe to use some sort of RTV on the water pump o-ring areas? If so what color/type should I use? As far as I can remember the black is for oil related stuff, so do I need gray or something different? I don't really trust the guys at my local Autozone, they've sold me the wrong parts and fluids many times now...
__________________
1/2 a tank of V-Power gas+ 1/2 tankful of fuel with Techroline= V-Tec gas??? Speed and grip walk a very thin line of balance. If a car feels like it's on rails, then you're probably not going fast enough.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
ToyotaNation.com is an independent Toyota/Lexus enthusiast website. ToyotaNation.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. The Toyota, Lexus and Scion names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
Forum for every generation Toyota MR2. Including the AW11 and SW20.
ElliotTRD's Build/Please Help Me Thread
Linear Mode
