i did search and couldnt find the answer i wanted.my question is what kind of exact modifications will i need to do to the engine if i were to install 272 cams(im getting them for 300 bucks) on my 91 5sfe (shims/how are they installed and where can i get the right ones) .the guy making them says i will need to do tuning i asked what kind and his reply was fuel and timing to get it to max power.im wondering what needs to be done to the fuel in ex. bigger injectors, better fuel pump? as for the timing will i need to adjust the timing on the distributor or on the camshafts themelves.i would also like to bore it out to its max, 88mm if i recall correctly,its only 20 bucks a hole to get it bored so why not.i want to make as much power as i can NA, i know alot of you guys think thats dumb but i just dont want to deal with a turbo or a sc.any relevant input is appreciated.
i recall reading somewhere that a guy installed a modded intake cam and kept his exhaust cam stock on a 5sfe and apparently made good power,better than if he had modded his exhaust cam as well. what do you guys think of that,anyone know the science behind that?
i am a newbie but try not to hate on me to much.
I didn't know they made 272 cams for the 5sfe.Are you sure they're not for the 3sgte?
Anyway, you will need adjustable cam gears to degree them.
You will also need to install the cams and check the clearances, then adjust them either via trimming valve stems or replacing shims.
When using higher lift, longer duration cams, especially 272, you will need to upgrade your valve train with stiffer springs and stronger retainers or you will experience some serious valve float.
Larger injectors, fuel rail and higher capacity fuel pump.
You will need to address the timing issue/injector duty, either via ROM Tune or stand alone engine management.
Since you're gonna bore the block, I would use forged pistons.
I didn't know they made 272 cams for the 5sfe.Are you sure they're not for the 3sgte?
Anyway, you will need adjustable cam gears to degree them.
You will also need to install the cams and check the clearances, then adjust them either via trimming valve stems or replacing shims.
When using higher lift, longer duration cams, especially 272, you will need to upgrade your valve train with stiffer springs and stronger retainers or you will experience some serious valve float.
Larger injectors, fuel rail and higher capacity fuel pump.
You will need to address the timing issue/injector duty, either via ROM Tune or stand alone engine management.
Since you're gonna bore the block, I would use forged pistons.
Correct, the Toyota's are one of the more complex head designs due to the non adjustability of the valves. But we have been doing modified grinds for awhile, just have to weld and grind them to maintain the basecircle of the cam lobe to make it able to set proper lash with factory shims.
I didn't know they made 272 cams for the 5sfe.Are you sure they're not for the 3sgte?
Anyway, you will need adjustable cam gears to degree them.
You will also need to install the cams and check the clearances, then adjust them either via trimming valve stems or replacing shims.
When using higher lift, longer duration cams, especially 272, you will need to upgrade your valve train with stiffer springs and stronger retainers or you will experience some serious valve float.
Larger injectors, fuel rail and higher capacity fuel pump.
You will need to address the timing issue/injector duty, either via ROM Tune or stand alone engine management.
Since you're gonna bore the block, I would use forged pistons.
ive researched adjustable cam gears for the 5sfe before but couldnt find any,i'll have to look again i guess.this is actually my first car engine build/rebuild, i have mostly rebuilt dirtbikes and motorcycles and of that most of them were 2-strokes so im not to sure where the shims go for the cams.any info on where they go or how to install them is appreciated.i have always wondered about this, people say they put supra injectors and fuel pumps in there 3sgte and 5sfe powered cars and im assuming its from the car supra,do the supra injectors go right in or is modification required.no one ever really explaines it they just say put them in.
ive researched adjustable cam gears for the 5sfe before but couldnt find any,i'll have to look again i guess.
Thats one of the problems with the 5sfe, there's not much aftermarket performance support for them.
The 5sfe head is also an economy head. Though very durable, not built for racing. It lacks the water jackets for cooling, like 3sgte head in the turbo MR2's.
Quote:
this is actually my first car engine build/rebuild, i have mostly rebuilt dirtbikes and motorcycles and of that most of them were 2-strokes so im not to sure where the shims go for the cams.any info on where they go or how to install them is appreciated
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Shims are on top of the lifters beneath the cam lobes.
Quote:
i have always wondered about this, people say they put supra injectors and fuel pumps in there 3sgte and 5sfe powered cars and im assuming its from the car supra,do the supra injectors go right in or is modification required.no one ever really explaines it they just say put them in.
1 of the models of Supras use 550cc fuel injectors. They're plug and play for the MR2 Turbos.
Don't know about the 5sfe.
I believe there are some threads here with info about it.Worth a search.
Thats one of the problems with the 5sfe, there's not much aftermarket performance support for them.
The 5sfe head is also an economy head. Though very durable, not built for racing. It lacks the water jackets for cooling, like 3sgte head in the turbo MR2's.
.
Shims are on top of the lifters beneath the cam lobes.
1 of the models of Supras use 550cc fuel injectors. They're plug and play for the MR2 Turbos.
Don't know about the 5sfe.
I believe there are some threads here with info about it.Worth a search.
researched and found out that the 88-92 supra 315 light green top injectors are plug n play for the 5sfe.ive done the calculations and i have come to the conclusion that a swap to a 3vzfe will run about the same amount of money and i will end up with more power from the 3vzfe so i think i may end up going that route for now until i do the 2grfe swap.in the mean time i will work on the 5sfe and build it up when i can(money and time wise) to swap into another mr2 someday.
i have researched before on the 3vzfe swap and found that the 92?-94 is the easiest and the harness plugs right in.i think i'll start another thread on that though.when i do get around to it i will try to take pictures and document everything on the swap.thanks for all the great info though, i really appreciate it.
Changing cams on the 5S is a lot more money and work than it would be worth; if you change cams you would have to bring the head to a machine shop like talked about earlier for the shims, and it would be a waste not to do a valve job on it while it's taken apart, and to get the most out of high lift/duration cams you will need adjustable cam gears and you CANNOT get the for the 5S because iirc the timing belt runs the intake cam and there are gears/sprockets on the cams so the exhaust is run off the intake; or vice versa...
I remember a while back someone made a thread of a 5S build and everything that could be done was, and I dont think the car even made 200whp.
It costs a lot to build an engine, I probably have $7K into mine if not more; subtract the cost of a turbo and the other parts, maybe $3K, and you spent $4K on a engine that makes 200whp and has no more potential. And believe me, 200whp would get boring fast; my mr2 made 363whp and I was content with that for a month or two...
__________________
-91 Mr2Turbo-363WHP/289WTQ
I'm not happy, More power coming...
Now 386hp/300tq and still not happy
-94 Toyota Pickup SR5-
Well said.
You are correct about the intake cam being driven by a timing belt, with a gear on the intake cam that drives the exhaust cam (in the opposite direction).
I don't know how you would even degree that.
If I were to build the 5sfe, it would be a stroker, using the 3sgte head.
Like Russell said, Horsepower isn't cheap.
The equivalent to a 272 cam for the 5sfe is the Webcam 101 grind. You pretty much have to go with a hard weld for that much duration and lift because no one sells new cams for the 5sfe. I have some in my car now and it is definitely worth it but you have to have supporting mods to use them. You need bigger injectors, tuning, rod bolts, valve springs and a better flowing intake manifold and TB as well as the usual header and exhaust. You also need to raise the rev limit because those cams make power 1000rpms up from stock. Your party will end in a hurry if you still fuel cut at 6500rpms. Larger valves and porting help too but just add to the gains you get from the cams.
Shims have to be bought at the dealer and run about $9-12 each. To get the right ones you put the cams in with your current shims, tighten the caps being carefully to not bend the cams, use a feeler gauge to measure the clearance of each one with the lobe pointed away from the shim, write it down, pull the cams, remove the shim from each bucket and measure with a dial caliper, write that down next to the measurement you took for each valve before, then do the math to see how thick a shim you need to get into spec. I just put a set of Delta cams into my other car and was able to use all but a few of the shims. I just happened to have the right size lying around because I have another 5sfe taken apart in my garage.
For fuel I am currently using the MkIII Supra 315cc injectors and tuning AFRs and timing with an SMT6. You could use any top feed/high impedance injector that was between 250-315cc. I also have the ECU over clocked so I can rev to 7700rpms. The rods are Eagle H-Beams, 2jz valves and valve springs, custom intake manifold, gen 3 3sgte TB, custom 4-1 long tube header and KO Racing exhaust.
Don't worry about the fuel pump unless you go FI. It is more then capable of providing enough fuel up to 200whp NA.
If you bore it you also need pistons, pins, locks and rings. If you are going into the engine that far then do yourself a favor and put in 3sgte rods. 5sfe rods are strong but the rod bolts can't take high revs. You are going to want new bearings anyway if you have it apart and the machining to fit a 3sgte rod to the 5sfe crank is not too expensive.
Ignore the people saying that you need adjustable cam gears, you do not. You can have an adjustable 2jz cam gear machined if you need to bring timing back in line if you shaved the head. The reason you see so much about adjustable cam gears is that turbo cams often use lobe centers that were made for NA so they need the cam gears to get their overlap back where it works best. The 110 degree lobe centers you get on the Webcam 101 work great for the NA 5sfe.
Also ignore the people saying the 5sfe head doesn't flow. With the right cams and all the manifolds changed out it does just fine all the way up past 7500rpms.
While we are talking about myths about the 5sfe, don't listen to people tell you that the valve angle being too small or that the rod ratio is too low. Those things don't start coming into play until much higher RPMs like 9k or maybe even higher. And the idea that the water jackets won't cool well enough for high power is ridiculous. TEC2RM was making 515whp on his turbo 5sfe setup and Presure2 was 300+whp on a bone stock 5sfe with a ct-27.
No one has really taken a 5sfe anywhere close to the limits, even me and I have done a lot. I built my 5sfTe with low compression and 101 cams and all the goodies. I still don't have the turbo on partly because the car is so fun NA. So I started building a high compression version for my other car. It will run me right around $3000. I am doing all the assembly and making my own manifolds but also am adding extras that are not really needed. I don't see any reason why anyone else with enough skill to rebuild an engine using the BGBs couldn't do the same for about that price. The hard/expensive part is the intake manifold. I'm still trying to figure out a cheaper option for that.
Last edited by mrturrari; 12-12-2010 at 03:56 PM.
Reason: Haha just realized this was my first post on TN. Some of you will know me from mr2oc and mr2board. :)
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Forum for every generation Toyota MR2. Including the AW11 and SW20.
that just cracked me up when i noticed it.
1991 Toyota MR2
1996 Toyota Camry
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