OK, so I switched out the master, Bench bled master, fronts work fine.
tried to bleed left rear, nothing. Popped the brake line and the flow seems to be quite weak. Have not even got to the other side yet. Just got the car, thinking either the calipers are not assembled properly or I have a line prob.
you need to start at the very furthest line from the reservoir. it would be the driver rear. then go to the passenger rear. then passenger front, then driver front. repeat the cycle. oh! and make sure the reservoir does NOT run dry at ANY point.
I was on drivers side rear. Prob is I am not even getting any air through the bleeder that i can tell. Kinda ran out of time last night so i cant be sure. I pulled the line at the caliper, re-attached it and still got nothing through the bleeder, but I only had a few minutes and an unwilling helper on the brake pedal.
One thing, pedal will not go down, in other words, I was hoping the pedal would go to the floor when the bleeder valve on the caliper was opened, but it does not. Is this normal?
My understanding is that the front system is separate from the rear. This would explain why the pedal will not go to the floor. Could it also be impeding my progress? This could explain why I have limited fluid flow from the line itself, eh? Should I disconnect the front and try to bleed the rears only?
nah, don't disconnect anything. you could try to gravity bleed everything first. you crack all of the bleeders open at the same time. you might open the rear ones wide open. this is a messy process. the idea is that brake fluid will run out at all four corners. after you get flow, you can do the regular bleed process.
as for front and rear being "speparate" well, i' not so sure what you're trying to say. they all four use the same reservoir, so...
sometimes if i have a tough bubble, what i'll do is pump the system up a whole buch, then crack the line(s). this process goes over and over again.
sometimes using a small ball pein hammer on the caliper helps. you tap the caliper before cracking the line. the vibration causes the air bubble to rise up to where the bleeder is.
good luck!
pedal is stiff, cant really 'pump' the sys up anymore. will try to gravity bleed. manual says systems are separate, meaning you could have a failure at front or rear but the other sys will still work.
thanks again for your help. This really should not be that tough.
well, the reason there was no flow through the bleeder valve is because the bleeder valve was clogged.
After unclogging it, it flowed fine. I did a gravity bleed, I started to get some rear brakes. I was able to bleed the rears by myself. The fluid is just grimy, terrible. But I flushed it through with new fluid and they seemed to be working well.
So I do a road test, and it is fine, four wheel brakes!! WooHoo!!
Wait a second, now I am getting nose dive again...lock the brakes...FRONTS ONLY!!!
That was my original problem, intermittent brake failure!!
So, needless to say a complete bleed is in order after work. Any thoughts?
just a bit:
if you use a really good brake fluid like Motul or ATE Super Blue, the stuff is blue which makes for real ease of bleeding the brakes thoroughly. when it comes time to do it again, they have the original ATE Gold. these fluids are super good as far as fighting brake fade.
now, as for me, i used a brake proportioning valve to bias my braking to my liking. the feel is unbelieveable on the track.
what is the condition of your vacuum lines? i wonder if you are starting to experience a malfunctioning booster.
Last edited by ToyotaTechGeek; 04-20-2005 at 07:50 PM.
I dont see how a malfunctioning booster would not affect both the front and the rears.
Anyhoo, I bled the entire system, there was nothing disconcerning about that experience, no air noticable, but at least it is done again (Using Syntec) Drove about 50 miles last night, and the thing seemed normal. But I still dont trust it. Rear brake failure simply came out of nowhere the other day. I will keep you informed. Concerning lines, the system is not that complicated, and it would be improbable that a lines integrity would be breached and then suddenly fix itself, but hey, none of this is making much sense, so i dont know.
Brake fade is not an issue. I am a reasonable driver with multiple championships in local and regional karting (IKF), experience with FF and worked on a Formula Atlantic team for many years, I have some experince. When that is the problem, I will let you know ;-)
On a side note: Boiled the brake fluid in my 1987 MR2 a few weeks after I got it. Parked it after running hard in the mountain roads, got back in 15 minutes later, took off, came to stop sign, pedal goes to the floor!! Fortunately I was going up hill and at about 10MPH and there was no problem. Let them cool and got it home, good lesson though. Dont park a car with hot brakes and old brake fluid!!
Brake proportioning valve? a bias adjust, eh? That would be nice for certain rotation conditions, but I dont see how that would improve normal braking performance in a car that has self adjusting brakes. But I am not arguing, just babbling, where do I get one?
thanks again for your help, I will try the car after work and see if I can induce the brake failure again.
yeah, rear bias is really nice, especially on a midship (with your karting experience, you would know this!) it's nice not to unload the rear tires and nice also not to have a bunch of forward momentum (re: nose dive). you can get one from SUmmit or Wilwood (Summit has one that is a Wilwood). either way, they are about $50.
it's soo cool that you've worked on Formula Atlantic cars...i'm very jealous!
FA pit crew: far more glamorous to talk about than to actually do. Pits all look the same whether you are in Montreal or Bakersfield. Just wnanted to let you know i was not a complete wanker and have a decent ass for feeling things out. Best part was i was heavily involved in development of data aquisition systems.
I drive my cars hard on the amazing mountain roads here on the Peninsula in the Bay Area, but its not like track driving. No real need for bias control, i have a shifter kart for driving REAL hard driving ;-) The day comes that I need bias for rotation on the street is the day I have lost my mind (especially when i can go to the track whenever i want)
Now, I may decide to Solo one of my cars, in that case, that bias adjust will be the first item on the list.
Anyhoo, I will give it a go in a litte bit and will leave a report here, thanks again
OK!!!! drove probably 100 miles yesterday, mostly mountain roads, drove it hard as confidence grew, no problems!! they seem to work well.
But I am still not convinced. I dont trust them, yet, but I will keep charging forward and if they maintain consistency for a few more days i will feel as if the problem is behind me.
I have two MR2's, and your advice is certainly worth loaning one of them for a day or weekend. Thats what they are for , teaching motrocycle wankers to watch their mirrors.
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Update
) it's nice not to unload the rear tires and nice also not to have a bunch of forward momentum (re: nose dive). you can get one from SUmmit or Wilwood (Summit has one that is a Wilwood). either way, they are about $50.
, teaching motrocycle wankers to watch their mirrors.
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