Please help with damaged cylinder head bolt - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Yaris/Scion iA, Vitz and Echo Forum Discussion area for all the Toyota Yaris/Scion iA, Echo, and Vitz owners worldwide.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 Old 06-01-2017, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Please help with damaged cylinder head bolt

Hi all,
I am in Ireland. Last Saturday, I disassembled my Toyota Yaris 3 cylinders year 2008, 1000CC Euro version to change piston rings due to heavy smoking when accelerating at over 3000 RPM. However, I accidently damaged a cylinder head bolt (it was rounded) due to a bad quality of socket I purchased in a local car part store.

Have you experienced with this situation? How can I release this bolt to take out the cylinder head? I tried to leant from Internet but I found nothing useful there. I am thinking to drill to brake all this bolt but I am afraid that it is not good idea because the bolt is quit long (about 15 cm).
Please suggest me if you have experienced with this situation.
Thank you,
Jamie
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bolt_broken.jpg (167.8 KB, 13 views)
valjeanlk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 06-01-2017, 01:40 PM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rocky Mtns.
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Thanks: 29
Thanked 130 Times in 115 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
All of us have don that. Here are a couple of ideas:

1. If there is enough room you can try to weld a nut to the top of the damaged bolt and then try removing the bolt.

2. This style of bolt extractor is popular here and geneally works well: http://www.irwin.com/tools/screw-bol...olt-extractors

You may have to look around if this particular manufacturer is not available.

3. I have on occasion taken a slightly undersize socket, say 12-point to get some grip, and hammered it over the top and sides of the rounded head and used that for final removal.

If that bolt is really stuck try tightening (yes tightening) it a very small amount, say 1/16 of a turn or less, to help free it.

Watch out for threads coming out with the bolt as you will have to fix the hole with an insert if that occurs
Taco'09 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Taco'09 For This Useful Post:
valjeanlk (06-02-2017)
post #3 of 21 Old 06-01-2017, 03:54 PM
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
This may help:
thetut is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to thetut For This Useful Post:
valjeanlk (06-02-2017)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 Old 06-02-2017, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Unhappy

Thank you guys for your replies.


I am going to think with the 2nd and 3rd ideas from you as I don't have a welding equipment and the room is very narrow.


I went to a local Toyota dealership today morning and bought a bolt to see how it is. It is a M9 star bolts (Toyota code: 90910-02151). This is the first time I open a car myself to change piston rings.


If I failed to release this broken bolt by following yours 2nd and 3rd ideas, can I drilled off the head of the bolt and lift up the cylinder head ? There is a rest part of the bolt of about 5 cm with no thread pitch from the bolts head.


I want to note that I am doing this job with the engine block is still in the car so the timing chain cover is not taken out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco'09 View Post
All of us have don that. Here are a couple of ideas:

3. I have on occasion taken a slightly undersize socket, say 12-point to get some grip, and hammered it over the top and sides of the rounded head and used that for final removal.
Did you try this to release the broken bolt for the cylinder head?

Last edited by valjeanlk; 06-02-2017 at 06:02 AM.
valjeanlk is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 06-02-2017, 11:26 AM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rocky Mtns.
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Thanks: 29
Thanked 130 Times in 115 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by valjeanlk View Post
Thank you guys for your replies.


I am going to think with the 2nd and 3rd ideas from you as I don't have a welding equipment and the room is very narrow.


I went to a local Toyota dealership today morning and bought a bolt to see how it is. It is a M9 star bolts (Toyota code: 90910-02151). This is the first time I open a car myself to change piston rings.


If I failed to release this broken bolt by following yours 2nd and 3rd ideas, can I drilled off the head of the bolt and lift up the cylinder head ? There is a rest part of the bolt of about 5 cm with no thread pitch from the bolts head.


I want to note that I am doing this job with the engine block is still in the car so the timing chain cover is not taken out.



Did you try this to release the broken bolt for the cylinder head?

Yes, but not in a situation like yours but on a small engine where I had a lot of space and the bolt head was smaller.

Honestly, I think using the tool with the fluted socket from someone like Irwin, or similar, has the best chance for you because its bite increases in the reverse direction the more you turn it. The socket may work depending on how stuck the bolt is and how good a bite you can get.

If this were mine and all I had was a socket I would naturally try that but I would prefer the fluted tool as mentioned and linked above. If the tool does not work I would try next progressive drilling the head of the bolt starting with small diameter bits and working to larger diameter bits with the idea of actually drilling off the bolt's head. Or taking a Dremel with cutoff wheels to carve the bolt head off in pieces if necessary.

Drilling the bolt can be kind of tricky as they can be work harden during drilling and the metal becomes really hard. I never mastered that technique so you may want to call a machinist to ask the best technique or dig around on line or hopefully someone here can chime in about drilling speed, use of cutting oil, type of bit and son on.

The reason I mentioned using a Dremel is because it is my go to tool for a lot of things and I guess I have become comfortable with it, but you got to be careful because the cutoff wheels are brittle.
Taco'09 is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 06-02-2017, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
The bolt head has the outer diameter of 14.6mm. I will need to use a deep well Irwin extractor. But I am unsure what size of Irwin I should use. Can you suggest me the standard size of Irwin that has inner diameter of about 14mm as you might have those in hand? I will need to purchase on ebay because this tool is not availabe locally in my area in Ireland.
valjeanlk is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 06-02-2017, 06:09 PM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rocky Mtns.
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Thanks: 29
Thanked 130 Times in 115 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
What I would do is make sure I had some good measurements and then email their technical services department or even call them and let them make a recommendation. If that is the only remaining bolt once the clamping force is released on the head it should then be able to be removed. But be advised that the head might be easy to remove but I have removed a lot of and frequently they do not just fall off because they often have quite a residual grip and I have even had to use wooden posts and a sledge hammer hitting the post on end to free it.
Taco'09 is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 06-02-2017, 07:09 PM
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Moon
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
This is a dumb question--I have yet to do a head gasket/related repair so I really do not know:


Is it possible to use a pair of good quality (note: good quality) vise grip pliers? If the rounded head bolt has enough "meat" might it be possible to use the vise grips to "bite" into the bolt head (making sure you have the clamp set to be really really tight) enough so that you might be able to loosen it?

If not, disregard, I'm high right now.
l33ch is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 06-02-2017, 08:00 PM
TN Post Wh*re
 
Bitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Chicago
Posts: 13,070
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1623 Post(s)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 994 Times in 941 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Either a male or female extractor bit may get a bite on it, failing that you'll need to drill the head off the bolt then slide the head up the bolt shaft and remove the bolt with vice grips. You'll probably need new bolts anyway, they're likely torque to yield which means they gotta be replaced as they stretch during install.
Bitter is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old 06-02-2017, 09:22 PM
New TN User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandhills region of SC
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Drill the bolt's head off.

Pard, you are way over thinking this. Drill the head off the bolt. Pack the area around the bolt head with paper towels to catch the chips. Start with a small drill 2.5-3mm and drill into the center of the socket head about 5 mm deep. The trick is to hold the drill aligned with the shank of the bolt. Then switch to an 11mm drill and run it down into the socket head until the bolt's head POPs off. You can't hurt the cyclinder head, there's a hardened steel washer under the bolt head. Pick out all the chips with a magnet. Lift the cylinder head off the stud and back the stud out with a pliers or more than likely, just your fingers. Should take all of 5 minutes, tops.
Rusty Marlin is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 06-03-2017, 02:04 AM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Reasons I am thinkg to extract the bolt rather than drill its head off are the bolt is very hard even the drill bit can be burnt out and there might be hozirontal guides that connect the timing chain cover and the cilynder head. In this case, the cilynder head wont lift up. I checked the diagram of engine block for Toyota Agyos year 2005-2007 which I think is similar to my Toyota Yaris 2008 with 3 cylinders and there is no horizontal guide. Do you think there are horizontal guides between the timing chain cover and the cilynder head?
valjeanlk is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 06-03-2017, 07:29 AM
TN Post Wh*re
 
Bitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Chicago
Posts: 13,070
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1623 Post(s)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 994 Times in 941 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Won't you need to pull the timing chain cover anyway to re-seal it to the head? There are usually some kind of alignment pin on the head or block so you can only go up and down with the head, if you were planning on sliding it sideway to remove and install that won't work, plus the timing chain cover will be sealed with silicone to the head so it's not like you'll be able to just slide it off anyway, the chain cover has to be removed to remove the head on every Toyota I'm familiar with.

As for the bolt, yes it is hardened steel but a cobalt drill bit will cut through it. Once the hole is started with low speed and high pressure make sure to keep it filled with engine oil to lubricate and cool the drill bit so it stays sharp better, you can resharpen the cobalt drill bit as often as needed while drilling. Plain steel, black steel, high speed steel, and titanium coated bits will all dull out pretty quick drilling a head bolt, cobalt bits are a must. Try not to overheat the drill bit, if you see the oil smoking or the metal chips smoking then you're going too fast and need to slow down. It may be wise to make a drilling guide out of some wooden dowel if possible, drill a hole that fits over the bolt head snugly and then in the exact center of that hole drill through with the drill bit you'll be using to take the head off, that way you'll stay centered more easily. You should be able to just start with a bit that fits in the top of the bolt and take the head off in one step, though pilot holes help it's often very difficult to get a hole started on center in a place like that. As for the debris from drilling, the oil will help contain it, so can magnetizing the bit, it would be wise to buy several cans of carb cleaner or brake cleaner and thoroughly flush the cylinder head and clean it up, maybe even have a machine shop clean it and replace the valve seals, check the valves, and check for warpage and service the head if there is any.
Bitter is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 06-03-2017, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Hi Bitter,
Yes, I was planning to just lift up the cilynder head vertically without removing the timing chain cover. If the timing chain cover must be removed, the mounting emgine insulator must also be removed as well. If in this case, the engine will need to be supported by a crane with hoist. I just do the job in my house so there is not enough tool. Is it difenetely sure I need to remove the side chain cover?
valjeanlk is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 06-03-2017, 09:05 AM
TN Post Wh*re
 
Bitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Chicago
Posts: 13,070
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1623 Post(s)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 994 Times in 941 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
It's pretty likely that you do, I don't know specifically with that exact engine as we don't have it in the USA, but the 1ZZ and 2ZZ engines as well as the 2AZ engine and most other 4 cylinder timing chain engines need the chain cover off to pull the head. The good news is you can use a floor jack and a block of wood to support the engine from the bottom instead of holding it from above. I highly suggest you check out a video or find some shop manual directions on taking the engine apart, it'll make it much easier on you if you know the exact steps needed. Be sure to clean out the oil passages for the variable valve timing system if that engine has it and the filter for the oil control valve.
Bitter is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 06-03-2017, 03:54 PM
New TN User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandhills region of SC
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by valjeanlk View Post
Reasons I am thinkg to extract the bolt rather than drill its head off are the bolt is very hard even the drill bit can be burnt out and there might be hozirontal guides that connect the timing chain cover and the cilynder head. In this case, the cilynder head wont lift up. I checked the diagram of engine block for Toyota Agyos year 2005-2007 which I think is similar to my Toyota Yaris 2008 with 3 cylinders and there is no horizontal guide. Do you think there are horizontal guides between the timing chain cover and the cilynder head?
They aren't that hard... I just did this on my Camry. Stripped 8 out of 10 CH bolts. Had to drill them all. Used Carbon Steel drills and used the same two for the whole job. I figured you already had the timing chain cover off, you can't get the head bolts with out pulling the cams. which means you pulled the timing chain. The cover is bolted to the head at the top with at least two if not 4 bolts and one nutted stud. As stated by Bitter, when you put it back together you need to silicon seal the cover to the head and the block anyway. You may need a helper to provide down pressure on the drill. I ran the drill while my wife applied down pressure with a lever slipped under a loop of cordage. The cordage was tied off to the exhaust studs, the lever was under the cordage and the short end on top of the drill, she lifted up on her end of the lever while I controlled alignment. Looking at the diagrams, the engine is a shortened 2AZ, which a fairly simple engine to work on.

Last edited by Rusty Marlin; 06-03-2017 at 04:01 PM.
Rusty Marlin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Passenger and Sports Car Forums > Yaris/Scion iA, Vitz and Echo Forum

Bookmarks

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Back