Ethanol in Yaris safe?

[DgtHorse]

My gas station is starting to carry Ethanol fuel rated at 87 octane level and only a 15% blend of ethanol. I am just wondering wether its bad for the car and wether i would get better fuel economy?

[wileewashere]

i asked this of a tech at my local dealer in michigan, as some stations are carrying a 10% ethanol blend. toyota says no problem with the 1.8 vvt-i in my corolla. im not sure about 15%. im not crazy about these ethanol blends, as i was told the 10% blend could decrease mileage by 2-3%, so i assume the higher blends would affect mileage even moreso.

there is going to be a push for E85 (85% ethanol) in the states. our cars could not run on that anyway, but i wonder how that would affect fuel economy.

[DgtHorse]

Yeah i was asking around and since ethanol has a high levels of octane it burns faster which reduces mileage and also corrodes the gas lines. Thanks for the info dude!

[x_enginerd]

you can only use up to 10% ethanol in your yaris. I have been using 89 octane Husky 5% ethanol blend and have averaged 47MPIG. If you read you owner's manual, oxygenated fuels ( ethanol e.g.) are recommended. I don't believe 10% blend or less will corrode anything (but your paint) on new cars.

Also, improper tire pressure will have more effect on fuel economy than switching to ethanol blended fuels. Ethanol blended fuels don't burn faster. There is less energy content in the fuel due to more hydrogens per carbon in the ethanol, so more fuel is required to run the car (basically). Just my untechnical two cents.

[DgtHorse]

Hehe, thanks for the info x_enginerd....i will give it a try and see what results i get!

[fstb88]

the only reason it decreases with the lower percentile ethanol is because it dcreases the gasolines octane. E85 has an octane of 110 IIRC. Because the ethanol somewhat literally turns to alcohol. Which we all know is explosive. Tghe higher the octane the better. Because more of it explodes, thats why it is cleaner burning because there is less waste. The problem with higher octane is that standard seals in most cars will deteriorate quickly. I've never heard of fuel lines being corroded from ethanol. The book for this car says that it can use any blend of ethanol so I'd try it. The Yaris and many other Toyota vehicles have thicker and moreresilliant seals so they can take the added stress. If you go to wikipedia it can explain so reasons why it can corrode fuel lines and such. Basicly it says try E85 if your engine light comes on, run it out of E85 ad and never do it again because the computer doesn't understand how to compensate for the more oxygenated ethanol.

[DgtHorse]

Thanks for the info fstb88.....i asked my dealer and they said i should not try it unless i intend to ALWAYS put it.

[91MR2quickNA]

Ethanol is not corrosive. Don't mix that up with methanol, which is very corrosive and very explosive. Toyota is actually pushing most gas stations to use a 10-15% blend of ethanol instead of E85. E10-E15 has been in use in California for quite some time now. It will not cause problems with your car.

Ethanol is just another name for ethyl alcohol, you know, the alcohol that is present in all alcoholic drinks. 15% ethanol is equivalent to 30 proof alcohol. Ethyl alcohol is harder to burn, so therefore, it takes higher compression engines or very aggressive fuel mapping to burn increasing amounts of ethanol.

In flex fuel vehicles, E85 reduces performance and gas mileage because it's effectively making the engine run rich, but because ethanol burns off cleaner, no one really says anything about that. In many cases, the engine just ends up dumping the excess fuel into the exhaust. This is usually why non-flex fuel cars throw a CEL. The O2 sensors detect a rich running condition that it cannot fix.

[fstb88]

The primary differences from non-FFVs is the elimination of bare magnesium, aluminum, and rubber parts in the fuel system, the use of fuel pumps capable of operating with electrically-conductive (alcohol) instead of non-conducting dielectric (gasoline) fuel, specially-coated wear-resistant engine parts, fuel injection control systems having a wider range of pulse widths (for injecting approximately 30% more fuel) {Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85}

There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV—the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV’s fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon lined fuel hoses. {Source http://www.agriculture.state.ia.us/e85q&a.html}

Ethyl Alcohol is corrosive

Both sources do state that peformance is increased at the expensive of a decreased economy. Studies shown by Ford prove that. Yes more ethanol is needed to be combusted than gasoline. but is entirely ecofriendly and renewable.

[stuts]

Hey I have a question what happens if you do put 15% ethenol in your Yaris what will happen

[DgtHorse]

Well i can report that the 10% ethanol works Beautifully in the Yaris....it actually improved my MPG and i notice less engine noise (maybe thats just me). The Ethanol blended gas here is rated at a 89 octane level so thats possibly why i get more mileage. The User guide clearly states NOT to use over 10% of ethanol blended fuels....i dunno if i would risk it but if you do i am curious to knowing your results!

[fstb88]

Yeah the owners manual specifically states 10% is the maximum. the reason being is because the fuel carring materials are built to with stand the corrosiveness of 10% anything higher with corrode it much faster. luckily this engine is fairly simplistic so if some of the lesser parts get corroded you can fix it somewhat simply

[gECHO]

I just finished my first tank of ethanol blended fuel (Mohawk/Husky Enhanced90 - 10% I think) in my 2005 automatic Echo.

For the first half of the tank my car seemed pretty sluggish. I really noticed the reduced power when trying to accelerate while in overdrive. I would have to give the car enough gas for it to kick back to 3rd in order to properly accelerate.

After about 300km everything smoothed out. I'm not sure what the problem was, I thought the car should have adjusted to the new fuel much more quickly. Despite the initial problems I still got slightly better fuel economy than my last 4 fillups (46.13 Imp MPG).

After the next tank I should have a better idea of what the change in fuel economy will be.

[stuts]

Originally Posted by gECHO

I just finished my first tank of ethanol blended fuel (Mohawk/Husky Enhanced90 - 10% I think) in my 2005 automatic Echo.

For the first half of the tank my car seemed pretty sluggish. I really noticed the reduced power when trying to accelerate while in overdrive. I would have to give the car enough gas for it to kick back to 3rd in order to properly accelerate.

After about 300km everything smoothed out. I'm not sure what the problem was, I thought the car should have adjusted to the new fuel much more quickly. Despite the initial problems I still got slightly better fuel economy than my last 4 fillups (46.13 Imp MPG).

After the next tank I should have a better idea of what the change in fuel economy will be.

Interesting Gecho please keep us updated I put in regular Sunoco gas with 10% enthanol Blend and my MPG is Kicken butt let me tellya

[stuts]

very interesting article about Ethanol E85

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/060628.htm