2004 Echo RS test drive

[Komodo]

Been contemplating a buying a Echo RS.
Local dealer had one with less than 30k on it.
So I took it for a drive. Manual equipped car.
I was a bit disappointed in the performance of the car. I'm comparing it to my daily driver which is an old and tired mazda 323 ( 1.6 sohc ) . The RS felt gutless.
Maybe I was expecting too much, but I was expecting the car to have a bit more "pep"
than my 323. Don't get me wrong the engine is worlds smoother and more refined.
But power wise it felt weak. The only other thing I noticed is the shifter is a bit notchy again compared to my 323 that is over a decade older.
I liked everything else about the car nice little package just expected more.
The fabric on the seats dosen't look like it would hold up in the long run though.
So in the end I didn't get the car even though the sales guy dropped the price by about $1500. Maybe this car is a bit weak. I think I will have to look around for another to test drive, this paticular car maybe a bad example. What are your experiences.

I guess I'll have to go and test drive a new Yaris to see if there is any diffrence between them.

[ECHOKnight2000]

Maybe you did have too high of expectations. The new Yaris uses the same powerplant as the previous gen ECHO of course tweaked a little but essencially the same so don't expect it to deliver nose bleeding acceleration. But since its stiffer it should give a more "sporty" feel when going around corners. If you're still not satisfied maybe you don't want or need an entry level car but more so on the "sporty" side?? Good luck!

[Komodo]

ECHOKnight2000

I was comparing to my daily driver mazda 323 which is pushing almost 15 years.
I was expecting the RS to be leaps and bounds over the tired 323.
The 323 has a 1.6L 82hp and weighs 2240lbs. Now that is pretty close to the RS.
So I expected the RS with 20+ hp to be a big improvement over my 323.
Which it felt slower on my butt dyno.

[Pars]

The old cars from the 80s and 90s didn't have all the fancy emission control to cut down on the pollutant. Also, I know a few people in those old 323 that don't even run with catalytic converter, while the ULEV system in the new cars will cut into the hp output. If you don't mind stinking up the road, keep the 323. Also, the 323's primitive 1.6L will feel peppy at the bottom end, but the newer engines (even when bogged down with the emission system) will out-pace it at higher speeds and return significantly better fuel economy while doing it. Back when I was driving my 98 Civic Hatch, I use to cream those 323 hatchback like they were standing still, So, I know that particular car doesn't have any guts in an all out race.

[Komodo]

Pars

My 323 still has it's emission equipment on it (inculding cat) so I don't see any significant difference there.
The whole point of the post was that I was expecting a car with 20+ more hp and similar weight to be a little more peppy. I know the 323 is gutless. That is why I was expecting the RS to perform better. You know what they say about racing Hondas, just like the special olympics..even if you win you're still retarded.

[Pars]

Originally Posted by Komodo

Pars

My 323 still has it's emission equipment on it (inculding cat) so I don't see any significant difference there.
The whole point of the post was that I was expecting a car with 20+ more hp and similar weight to be a little more peppy. I know the 323 is gutless. That is why I was expecting the RS to perform better. You know what they say about racing Hondas, just like the special olympics..even if you win you're still retarded.

Nobody likes a sore looser.

btw, HP is a function of speed, meaning it increases as the engine spins faster even though the actual power (torque) output of the engine isn't increasing. So, if you need to know the capability of the engine, the best gage is the torque output and if it remains flat over the rpm range. HP doesn't tell the whole story, but torque will. I bet your 323 has about the same amount of torque as the 04 Echo.

Another consideration is that the 323 torque probably only comes into play at the lower rpms and taper out at the higher rpm. So if you're driving the car at about 2/3 or less, both would feel the same, but once you go full out, the modern engine that usually has a flat torque curve and thus able to still produce more hp at higher rpms will pull ahead. But you need to rev the crap out the engine to tap into that extra power. That's why the old 323 will always loose to the likes of a Honda (and now Toyota) in a race situation, but feel as peppy or more-so in normal driving situation. And likewise at very highspeed on the highway, the fact that car can still produce power at high rpms will allow it to pull ahead of a bigger displacement car that doesn't have any high rpm capabilities.

[Komodo]

Never lost so I can't be sore.
I don't race on the street. Nor would I use my daily driver for that.
I have another car for track events.
I know the relation ship between hp ant tq. I didn't start this thread to bench race the cars.
I was just stating that I expected more and was a bit disapointed in the car that got such good reviews. I'm not personally attacking Echo owners here. Just sharing my experience.
Since I was test driving the car by myself I did get the chance to floor the car. In every gear.
I even did some 90kph drops from 5th to 3rd to feel the car pull. All I can say is the car car felt lacking compared to my tired 323. I am going to test drive a Yaris sedan and hb today to see if maybe the RS I drove was a bad example.

[bgrieger]

One of the things that will fool the butt dyno is your seating position. The higher you sit, the slower you feel (say, your 323 vs an SUV). You sit darn near 6 inches higher in the echo. The torque curve is also perfectly flat, as a dyno proved to me (I could have sworn I have always felt something pick up at 3k RPM with VVT, but the dyno says almost nada). Perhaps have to get a copy of an old C&D and check the 0-60 times of each car to see what they really do, but 20hp difference isn't going to be much different. a few 10's in the 1/4 mile perhaps.

[stuts]

Komodo check autotrader.ca you can get a nice variety of used Toyota Yaris now

[Komodo]

Been surfing the trader daily.
I went for a drive in a manual Yaris sedan today.
Still seems a like the car no low end grunt. Engine is a smooth as butter though, just like the RS I drove last week. The Yaris has a much more plush interior the the Echo.
I really like the hatchbacks for carrying large items. But I just thing the Yaris HB is horrible to look at. The Echo HB looks much better. The Yaris sedan on the other hand neither offends or pleases. I do like to the Corrola also. Which brings up another issue. If I but a slighly used car @ bank rate, with toyota's resale values so high I end up paying in the end as much as a new car @ the Toyota finance rate. I may just wait until the new Corolla debuts and try to get the current gen at a decent price.

[Pars]

Originally Posted by Komodo

Never lost so I can't be sore.
I don't race on the street. Nor would I use my daily driver for that.
I have another car for track events.
I know the relation ship between hp ant tq. I didn't start this thread to bench race the cars.
I was just stating that I expected more and was a bit disapointed in the car that got such good reviews. I'm not personally attacking Echo owners here. Just sharing my experience.
Since I was test driving the car by myself I did get the chance to floor the car. In every gear.
I even did some 90kph drops from 5th to 3rd to feel the car pull. All I can say is the car car felt lacking compared to my tired 323. I am going to test drive a Yaris sedan and hb today to see if maybe the RS I drove was a bad example.

I don't own and Echo and I'm not advocating street racing. There's not much drama taking a dinky 1.5L to 100km/hr as fast as possible. But it's cool to compare one econo car with another. Especially an old timer like the 323 vs a new one.

Well, good luck with your car hunt.

[Pars]

Driving a manual car with good initial torque makes for a much more pleasant take off when you're cruising. The 1.8L in the 2008 Corolla sounds like interesting engine, especially with the variable valve timing for both intake and exhaust. So, initial torque shouldn't be lacking. It'd be great if they could drop that engine into the light weight Yaris. It'd made it a great sleeper and also easier clutch action when you're stuck in traffic.

The shifting in my 07 Yaris is a bit more clunky then my old 98 Civic Hatch, but not as clunky as the new generation Civic. Perhaps it's all the extra synchronizers that's giving the slightly notchy feeling. Regardless, it's still good, so not a problem.

The single overhead cam engine in the Fit should have slightly better initial take-off power, so it should feel a little better when engaging the clutch. I've found that all these tinny double overhead cam engines tend to have problems with initial power (like below 1000rpm) but more then makes up for it once the car gets moving, which would explain why the Yaris is faster then the Fit. But the Fit is still getting all the rave reviews.

Waiting for the Corolla Wagon is probably going to be worth it. Especially if gas consumption and cargo hauling capacity is two the priorities.

[ECHOKnight2000]

I have an ECHO sedan and surprisingly it does have decent low end grunt and I have an automactic...of course I have to hit the sweet spot for it. Usually when I'm in heavy traffic but still moving maybe 20mph or so and I need to get into the other lane and maybe get ahead of another car I hit the gas my car "jumps" and I fly (no I'm not saying its a Porshe but for an econo car its surprising.) That's just my experience with it, obviously the light weight of the ECHO helps.

[Komodo]

I've driven a 06 XRS Corolla and it was impressive. Bit over priced for my wallet. But nice car to drive. But the sedans don't have the cargo volume that the Hb do. The Matrix is just not my taste. It looks like a shrunken mini van and drives like it too. On a side note most of the new cars drive like mini vans. The Echo, Coroll and MAtrix all have this high in the air feel too them. Which I don't quite care for. But it seems the trens these days. So I guess it's unavoidable. Just like the growing emblem size. Why to manufacturers insist on making your car a tacky billboard.
Anyways back to the Echo HB. I'm still going to try to find another to drive to compare to the first I drove. I still like the car it just wasn't what I was expecting.

[stuts]

Originally Posted by Komodo

I've driven a 06 XRS Corolla and it was impressive. Bit over priced for my wallet. But nice car to drive. But the sedans don't have the cargo volume that the Hb do. The Matrix is just not my taste. It looks like a shrunken mini van and drives like it too. On a side note most of the new cars drive like mini vans. The Echo, Coroll and MAtrix all have this high in the air feel too them. Which I don't quite care for. But it seems the trens these days. So I guess it's unavoidable. Just like the growing emblem size. Why to manufacturers insist on making your car a tacky billboard.
Anyways back to the Echo HB. I'm still going to try to find another to drive to compare to the first I drove. I still like the car it just wasn't what I was expecting.

you seem like a very hard person to please what are the positives that you like about the Yaris/Echo I can understand you your current POS car but you have to let go and except the new styles and ride