I'm thinking about lowering my Echo hatchback, and perhaps installing fancy struts on all four corners.
I have two questions :
- I there anything else that I can do to improve the handeling of my echo? IE Things that are going to strengthen the front end (an erea in which I am clueless).
- Should I go with aftermarket, or should I go to my Toyota dealer for these upgrades?
I have nice rims and tires,,,(Kumha KU31's), and I now feel a taste of the true handeling ability of this car.
Whiteline makes a rear sway bar upgrade, and hotchkis (sp?) makes a front and rear bar set. Most that have done the front bar hate the labour involved in putting it in (almost have to drop the subframe to get clearance).
coilovers are available, as are springs and dampers. They are not terribly common, but are fairly easy to source. Tein makes several, as does JIC. Toyota has the TRD springs and dampers as well.
Strengthen...a strut tower bar. Even the ebay ones will work for you, though Toyota again has the very expensive TRD one.
Whiteline makes a rear sway bar upgrade, and hotchkis (sp?) makes a front and rear bar set. Most that have done the front bar hate the labour involved in putting it in (almost have to drop the subframe to get clearance).
coilovers are available, as are springs and dampers. They are not terribly common, but are fairly easy to source. Tein makes several, as does JIC. Toyota has the TRD springs and dampers as well.
Strengthen...a strut tower bar. Even the ebay ones will work for you, though Toyota again has the very expensive TRD one.
Whiteline makes a rear sway bar upgrade, and hotchkis (sp?) makes a front and rear bar set. Most that have done the front bar hate the labour involved in putting it in (almost have to drop the subframe to get clearance).
coilovers are available, as are springs and dampers. They are not terribly common, but are fairly easy to source. Tein makes several, as does JIC. Toyota has the TRD springs and dampers as well.
Strengthen...a strut tower bar. Even the ebay ones will work for you, though Toyota again has the very expensive TRD one.
I have done some research about the differnet ugrades that you mentioned, and please correct me if I am wrong.
Ciolovers are like adjustible struts, so basically you can set the ride hight, and stiffness, and chang it if you so please.
My car already has (toyota) lowering springs (they only cost me $310 installed CAD).
So, I should prabably go for The strut Tower bars, and sway bars, if I really want to improve the handeling of my car.
Maybe I should lower it a bit more,,,it seems that it could go down a few more inches as well.
Lower does not always mean better. The only reason a race car is so low is to affect airflow under the vehicle at extreme speeds. You don't have their concerns with a road going car. You instead have speedbumps, driveways, potholes etc.
In handling terms, nothing is better than tires themselves. Nothing can compensate for shoddy rubber. Once you've fixed that, the next most important part is the contact patch. You maintain the patch, you maintain the grip.
Sway bars and springs cut body roll, but the real benefit is in keeping the camber angle correct to maximize the contact patch. Roll elimination is a simple side effect that actually has no handling benefit, and this can be achieved at stock height. Using springs vs sways to achieve this is a long, complex discussion and there is not room here, but it will suffice to say improving sways are the more comfortable method for a road going vehicle.
Dampers are #3. These control the springs, and the rate at which the suspension travels up and down. Springs support weight, dampers control movement. Too stiff, and a car has the "honda bounce", which works on a track, but can make handling horrible on the streets. Upgraded dampers will help with the sways as they really are a type of spring, and stock dampers may not be up to the task of controlling the additional forces.
Springs...support weight. That's it. The stiffer they are, the more force they can take before they compress, the less they compress, the better the camber angle, and the stronger the dampers need to be to control them. Upgrading sways for the street means they don’t have to be punishingly stiff all the time to do the job in hard cornering.
Some thoughts: some of the best handling cars I've been in for the streets use upgraded dampers, sways and stock springs with wide, sticky rubber. The stock dampers are always a little soft and don't resist movement as much in order to make the ride more comfortable. Stock springs support the weight alright, allow sufficient suspension travel for everyday use, and because lowering does little for handling, there's little gain outside of apprearance. Sways improve camber angles, and keep the rubber on the road.
A generally front wheel only concern: Strut bars benefit McPherson strut arrangements as the strut towers support lateral loads. The echo and it’s siblings use these, and can benefit from them.
This is not an indepth review, but should give you some ideas.
Lower does not always mean better. The only reason a race car is so low is to affect airflow under the vehicle at extreme speeds. You don't have their concerns with a road going car. You instead have speedbumps, driveways, potholes etc.
In handling terms, nothing is better than tires themselves. Nothing can compensate for shoddy rubber. Once you've fixed that, the next most important part is the contact patch. You maintain the patch, you maintain the grip.
Sway bars and springs cut body roll, but the real benefit is in keeping the camber angle correct to maximize the contact patch. Roll elimination is a simple side effect that actually has no handling benefit, and this can be achieved at stock height. Using springs vs sways to achieve this is a long, complex discussion and there is not room here, but it will suffice to say improving sways are the more comfortable method for a road going vehicle.
Dampers are #3. These control the springs, and the rate at which the suspension travels up and down. Springs support weight, dampers control movement. Too stiff, and a car has the "honda bounce", which works on a track, but can make handling horrible on the streets. Upgraded dampers will help with the sways as they really are a type of spring, and stock dampers may not be up to the task of controlling the additional forces.
Springs...support weight. That's it. The stiffer they are, the more force they can take before they compress, the less they compress, the better the camber angle, and the stronger the dampers need to be to control them. Upgrading sways for the street means they don’t have to be punishingly stiff all the time to do the job in hard cornering.
Some thoughts: some of the best handling cars I've been in for the streets use upgraded dampers, sways and stock springs with wide, sticky rubber. The stock dampers are always a little soft and don't resist movement as much in order to make the ride more comfortable. Stock springs support the weight alright, allow sufficient suspension travel for everyday use, and because lowering does little for handling, there's little gain outside of apprearance. Sways improve camber angles, and keep the rubber on the road.
A generally front wheel only concern: Strut bars benefit McPherson strut arrangements as the strut towers support lateral loads. The echo and it’s siblings use these, and can benefit from them.
This is not an indepth review, but should give you some ideas.
Woh thanks. You just totally answered all of my questions! : ' )
Lower does not always mean better. The only reason a race car is so low is to affect airflow under the vehicle at extreme speeds. You don't have their concerns with a road going car. You instead have speedbumps, driveways, potholes etc.
In handling terms, nothing is better than tires themselves. Nothing can compensate for shoddy rubber. Once you've fixed that, the next most important part is the contact patch. You maintain the patch, you maintain the grip.
Sway bars and springs cut body roll, but the real benefit is in keeping the camber angle correct to maximize the contact patch. Roll elimination is a simple side effect that actually has no handling benefit, and this can be achieved at stock height. Using springs vs sways to achieve this is a long, complex discussion and there is not room here, but it will suffice to say improving sways are the more comfortable method for a road going vehicle.
Dampers are #3. These control the springs, and the rate at which the suspension travels up and down. Springs support weight, dampers control movement. Too stiff, and a car has the "honda bounce", which works on a track, but can make handling horrible on the streets. Upgraded dampers will help with the sways as they really are a type of spring, and stock dampers may not be up to the task of controlling the additional forces.
Springs...support weight. That's it. The stiffer they are, the more force they can take before they compress, the less they compress, the better the camber angle, and the stronger the dampers need to be to control them. Upgrading sways for the street means they don’t have to be punishingly stiff all the time to do the job in hard cornering.
Some thoughts: some of the best handling cars I've been in for the streets use upgraded dampers, sways and stock springs with wide, sticky rubber. The stock dampers are always a little soft and don't resist movement as much in order to make the ride more comfortable. Stock springs support the weight alright, allow sufficient suspension travel for everyday use, and because lowering does little for handling, there's little gain outside of apprearance. Sways improve camber angles, and keep the rubber on the road.
A generally front wheel only concern: Strut bars benefit McPherson strut arrangements as the strut towers support lateral loads. The echo and it’s siblings use these, and can benefit from them.
This is not an indepth review, but should give you some ideas.
Top notch post +1 in my book
Also, as in purchasing most car modification upgrades, when comes to buying suspension parts like springs and dampers (but especially special units like coilovers), you get what you paid for. What that means is don't cheap out and buy something inexpensive and think it'll perform as good as others and have same level of quality. Go with big name brands like Tein or Tokico and you should be fine, but definitely do a bit more research and compare prices, but don't fall for deals that are "too good to be true."
And also, aside from things like speed bumps and stuff, keep in mind of where you live and the weather over there. For example, if you live in Canada and during the snow seasons (which has decreased thanks to global warming but still), the moisture and salt might ruin your expensive suspension upgrades if let's say the coilover is the exposed type (with no protective boot covering the damper-struts from external elements). A buddy of mine has to swap between the stock suspension components and the performance ones depending on the seasons, but he accepted such "hassle" and lived with it anyway. Basically, just think over your purchases before buying and installing them
Also, as in purchasing most car modification upgrades, when comes to buying suspension parts like springs and dampers (but especially special units like coilovers), you get what you paid for. What that means is don't cheap out and buy something inexpensive and think it'll perform as good as others and have same level of quality. Go with big name brands like Tein or Tokico and you should be fine, but definitely do a bit more research and compare prices, but don't fall for deals that are "too good to be true."
And also, aside from things like speed bumps and stuff, keep in mind of where you live and the weather over there. For example, if you live in Canada and during the snow seasons (which has decreased thanks to global warming but still), the moisture and salt might ruin your expensive suspension upgrades if let's say the coilover is the exposed type (with no protective boot covering the damper-struts from external elements). A buddy of mine has to swap between the stock suspension components and the performance ones depending on the seasons, but he accepted such "hassle" and lived with it anyway. Basically, just think over your purchases before buying and installing them
Thank you,,more good advice..
I use Krown, and I really don't drive my car in the winter becaus eof the salt. If it is totally dry, I might take it to get groceries,,but that's it until spring comes!
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+1 in my book 
because we can't count on the fucking Leafs 
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