GEN 1 Echo Brake Conversion

[SLPR1987]

Has anyone attempted a rear disc conversion on an Echo? If so what is required other than the new brakes and what would you recommend using partswise? need new brakes soon anyway and i want to know if it would be worth doing the conversion instead. thxinadv.

[w203]

Not gonna be cheap. The echo is a light car, the front does most the work. Having the rear discs are mostly for show purposes.

[SLPR1987]

yeah i actually jut asked a guy while i was getting an oil change today and found out that the drums actually give better braking for the e-brake anyway so he said its actually pretty pointless

[bgrieger]

Disks will provide better braking, but only if they are done correctly. I wish I could remember all the math that actually goes into sizing them, but there is a proportionate ratio that needs to be maintained in order to get any real improvement in braking without running into patch work solutions. In essence, unless Toyota offered the echo with disk rears in a different market that you could get your hands on, the costs involved in making a custom brake kit would be prohibitive for all but a true track car that you were trying to make money from...and for that, the echo would be a low on the list choice. And of course, if you're going to the effort to make a rear kit, you'll clearly want to build a front kit.

btw...asking the pimply faced oil change kid for advice on modifying your brakes is about as good as seeing a vet about brain surgery...

[SLPR1987]

fyi it wasnt a pimply faced kid it was the experienced guy

[SLPR1987]

Originally Posted by bgrieger

I wish I could remember all the math that actually goes into sizing them, but there is a proportionate ratio that needs to be maintained in order to get any real improvement in braking without running into patch work solutions.

Does anyone else know the math involved or where i could find it?

[bgrieger]

search the web. I last saw it at one of the custom big brake kit makers web sites.

[Marc M]

Not to Hijack this thread but, on the same note, would the front knuckle assemblies from lets say, a matrix work on the gen1 echo??

I am assuming that they are larger brakes, and would get rid of every day brake fade.

Marc M

[EchoHoLiK]

SLPR: Are you talking about sedan or hatchback? They're pretty much the same anyway, but I think the Gen1 JDM Vitz RS (and RS Turbo) both have rear-disc setup. Maybe that should be the direction you're looking when sourcing ready-made parts. Whether they will fit right onto your Echo or not, I really don't know.

Originally Posted by Marc M

I am assuming that they are larger brakes, and would get rid of every day brake fade.

Size have something to do with it, but not by much especially for a light car like the Echo. The crappy OEM brake package aside, getting a uprated set of discs and brake pads (from TRD or aftermarket) should more than solve the fade problem, if any (for track-day enthusiasts, I'm assuming).

[SLPR1987]

Marc M: Its all good, i have noticed a lot of similarities in the Matrix and gen 1 echo, when i was looking for body kits i looked at the matrix and realized it has the same lines on the front and rear bumpers as the echo does. that is an interesting point but i think echoholik's might work better

EchoHoLiK: its a sedan which means if i went that way the parts would fit and already be tuned for a relatively close if not exact weight setup.

thanks everybody for the help i really appriciate it and that was the best way i could think to answer multiple replies!

[SLPR1987]

Originally Posted by EchoHoLiK

I think the Gen1 JDM Vitz RS (and RS Turbo) both have rear-disc setup. Maybe that should be the direction you're looking when sourcing ready-made parts. Whether they will fit right onto your Echo or not, I really don't know

EUREKA!!! So after about an hour of searching (and playing xbox 360 ) i found that you were close and possibly still right but i found specs on the Euro Yaris T-Sport! It has rear DISCS!! Whoot!! so now i jnust have to find where to buy the parts and hope they ship oversea cuz it will probably be a company in europe. Does anyone know the TRD website for Europe? is it TRDeurope.com? we'll see....

[EchoHoLiK]

Originally Posted by SLPR1987

EUREKA!!! So after about an hour of searching (and playing xbox 360 ) i found that you were close and possibly still right but i found specs on the Euro Yaris T-Sport! It has rear DISCS!! Whoot!! so now i jnust have to find where to buy the parts and hope they ship oversea cuz it will probably be a company in europe. Does anyone know the TRD website for Europe? is it TRDeurope.com? we'll see....

I don't think there's TRD in Europe. Rather, it's called TTE (Toyota Team Europe) which is also called Toyota Motorsport (in Germany).

Here's the website from Germany: http://www.tte.de/

and fortunately it's also in english


Good luck to your quest.

[SLPR1987]

sweet, thanks!

[leasaunce]

ok. to do it its about $600aud. I asked my mate about this topic before and this is what he wrote back.

Hey mate,

I have done a drum brake conversion before on my old car. It was for a 1982 Datsun Bluebird which got a SR20DET dropped into and was pushing 270rwkw . That conversion was pretty easy, simply put the discs form the front end on the rear with some custom brake caliper mounting plates and then used the brakes from a 200sx half cut for the front.

I have a feeling that a similar option may well suit the yaris. This would involve putting the same discs that are on the front as on the rear. This does have its drawbacks however. Drum brakes require a higher pressure to operate (500 psi) than what a caliper/disc set up requires(200-350psi depending on application). Hence if such a conversion is done the rear brakes will be receiving more stopping pressure than what the front ones will. This is bad as rear end lock ups/ASB kicking in would be a pretty regular thing. To combat this the the brake lines can be switched from front to back etc which usually creates a desirable result but a very touchy brake peddle.

The most preferable option would be to get the rear discs off a 02-08 corolla and retrofit them to the yaris. These parts are pretty easily sourced. The cheapest option would be getting some from a wrecker. I am not sure of the yaris pcd but if it is 4x100 like the corolla the swap should be quite easy. TO combat the pressure problems flow restrictors can be bought to reduce pressure to the corollas specifications which would make for better driving.

As for places to do this in NSW i really could not recommend anyone first hand. Obviously before you get it done get a quote for the job and double the labor costs just to be safe. $600 is what it cost me to do the Datsun including parts and a little bit of labor (I was helping out too).

I should also strongly suggest that you have the car for a good few months before jumping into this. I have driven a yaris and the brakes are pretty good. I know drums dont look all that crash hot in new rims but they certainly do the job. no matter how much money you pour into a car like a yaris or a corolla it just must be remembered that it is what it is (a small car not designed for performance) I mean no offense by this but i have learnt the hard way...spending many 1000's on my corolla levin to be hosed by a vrx lancer... . Also weigh up the warranty that you will void on lovely new car (The rear end of it anyway) with the little added performance you will get out of rear drum brakes. sorry to put a dampener on it :P

The decision ultimately lies with you. If you want to do it then do it! I think it would be a fun little project to attack but consider the costs with the benefits and then decide.

Good luck!

Cheers, Travis

as you can see its not really worth doing it unless u have spare $$$. but other than that it wont brake any better! change the front calipers with 2-4 pot calipers.

[EchoHoLiK]

The lack of real practical improvement on braking performance is quite obvious. I guess the main thing for the rear-disc swap here is for the looks. As long as a nice set of wheels compliment the disc-look, it's probably worth the hassle, and will be a fun learning experience during the swap.