2000 Echo - Overheating! Please HELP!

[Camicia]

Hi,

I bought a 2000 echo as is at a price a little lower than KBB fair value. The previous owner claim no mechanical problems. The car was working well when I test drove it.
On the way back from Santa Rosa where I bought the car, around San Francisco the overheating light went on.

Well, to make a long story short the car is overheating. The guy that had the car before confess ed me that he had changed the water pump and the previous owner had change the radiator. I have also noticed that the fan ahas been jumped (it start spinning as soon as you turn the key and never go off).

I need to continually refill the radiator with water. I saw bubbles in the overflowing tank and I saw some hydrocarbon residual in the radiator, plus it smells like gasoline. The smoke is ok (not blue or white). The head seems "to sweat" some oil. There is not water in the oil.

A friend that do some mechanical work on cars told me that has probably a blown head gasket. Some mechanics they told me that to fix it I will need at least $2,000 and i am not sure how long it will continue to work well.

I am trying to decide what is the best thing to do for me.
- Scrap the car. Basically get
- Fix myself (it would be the first engine that I open).
- Try to sell it for a faction of what I paid it. REALLY SAD ABOUT THIS.
- Try SteelSeal ($50) or Thermagasket ($100). There is also Liquid Radiator Stop Leak by Bar's Leak at the Walmart ($15). This is could be really be a salvation.

The car need a paint job (I found that at MAACO they will do a good job for $327) the rest has been replaced less than 500 miles ago (tires, plugs, new carpet, rotors). The car fax has a clean title.

What do you suggest me to do?
Can I trust these "magic liquids" to solve the problem? Would I have other problems later?

Best,
Camicia

[Camicia]

I called the guy at Thermagasket. He told me that their product can definitely help. They guarantee the money back except sales takes and shipping. He told me that if I have to use the car, remove the thermostat and driving without? Is that really a good thing to do?
-Camicia

[toyomoho]

If the last resort try it but personally don't hold at much hope for these products.

Running a car without a thermostat is not good as the car takes forever to heat up and may run too cold. But this is most likely the only way to spread this product around. Once spread around in the cooling system would assume it can be reinstalled. Thus if going this route, don't worry about taking it out, just put it back in later on.

You have a blown head gasket, shame on the person who took advantage of you on this.

For $2G it may be worth attempting to find a used engine (not sure of availability for this car) then make the swap yourself. Try Craigslist for cars being parted out due to auto accident, etc. or an auto salvage yard. Either would should be lot cheaper then $2G. You should have a 1.5 liter 1NZ-FE engine. Double overhead cam.

This engine may be used in the Toyota Scion.Yaris. A Wikipedia search may prove helpful.

If you DIY parts would be guessing $150 unless the head is cracked then add another guessing $3-500 for a rebuilt head.

Have spent a lot of time in your area just a few years ago.

[Qslim]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

If the last resort try it but personally don't hold at much hope for these products.

It's like applying a tourniquet above a gunshot wound. It'll work for a little while, but at some point you're going to have to get someone who knows what they're doing to fix it. You can't go the rest of your life with a belt to slow the bleeding.

[Camicia]

Thank you very much for the suggestions.

In the meanwhile I found out that the previous owner used the cheap "Engine Restorer 4 cylinder" at the Autozone and use it. He claims that before I bought the car he had be able to go from Santa Rosa to San Francisco and back twice.

Steel Seal site claims that it is a different product than products based on pellets and it can fix the engine permanently.

Thermagasket has pretty impressive testimonial on their site: http://www.rxauto.com (I know they are on their part). I could really find anything online from independent position. It also gives money back guarantee (without shipping cost and sale taxes). Right now it seems the best deal to me because with $150 and 1 hour work I could get the car running. Opening the engine and replacing the gasket is going to be way too expensive and I will not have the guarantee that is going to definitely fix the over heating problem. I am thinking about buying it tomorrow and getting it by Saturday so I have time to work on the car.

This is what they claim:
Q: Can the head be removed in the future if treated with Thermagasket?
A: Thermagasket will not hinder the future removal of the head!

Q: How long will the Repair last?
A: The repair will last indefinitely

Q: Will Thermagasket damage my engine, radiator or heater core?
A: No... As long as the treatment instructions are followed!

If they keep these promises plus the money back guarantee I may be satisfied with the product.
If it works I will be more than happy to be a new testimonial for them. If it does NOT, they would have to pay for putting a new engine in my car if they don't want that EVERY forum on the Internet will have my experience.

Regarding the thermostat, the Thermagasket guy told me to remove it NOW before using the product if I need to use the car.

Do you have any personal experiences about SteelSeal or Thermagasket?

How much do you think i could ask (and get) on craigslist to sell the car "as is" declaring the problem?

Thanks again!

-Camicia

[Camicia]

Update: after researching a little bit last night I found claims that K&B Block Seal by CRC is equivalent to Thermagasket. I decided to buy it and i contacted the tech support.

In the email i received I read: "You are describing a compression leak with some other mechanical issues. We would suggest completing a compression test on the cylinders to determine the source of the leak. Once you locate which cylinder, keep the spark plug out while running the product through. This should allow the Block Seal to complete the seal without being force out by the compression gases. Our one concern is if the car has over heated previously and you are noticing oil, the head maybe warped. If this is the situation, Block Seal cannot fix a warped head"

I also contacted them by phone and she didn't have a lot of hope in her voice.

Today after flushing the system and removing the thermostat I took out the spark plugs. They were not in very bad condition but 3 out of 4 where a little dark. I put back the 2 that seems cleaner. and I turned the engine on.

Exhausted gas were still coming out from the radiator and if I was not wrong water and brown stuff was still coming out from the 2 holes. I think 3 out 4 of the cylinders have a internal leak. I didn't want to make things worse. so I gave up using the K&B block seal.

Furthermore now i have the "check engine" light on. It came out when I disconnected the first time a plug cable without removing the plug and it still on.

Should I just scrap the car?

Best,
Camicia

[toyomoho]

The car is worth what you paid less the engine repair. If a shop did this it would be somewhere between $500 and $1000, more if the head needs replacing.

The trouble codes can be easily read, AutoZone and perhaps other part store may read them for free.

Your problems are related to a blown head gasket and possible a cracked head. Until you fix this, you will continue to experience all these issues.