Starting issues. 2000 Toyota Echo. Starter motor?

[the_unliked]

Hi all,

Recently I switched out the manual transmission on my 2000 Toyota Echo with 160 000 miles on the clock. This involved removing a whole host of sensors and parts. I've now put about 4000 miles on this, with not too many problems, but recently I have had trouble starting the car.

It will crank healthily, plenty of juice in the battery. 4 times out of 5 it will start perfectly, as it always has. But that 1 time, it will struggle a lot. Sometimes it will just crank and crank without starting at all. Other times it will crank a while and then seemingly engage with a bit of a 'clunk'. Once it is running, it runs just fine.

My question is this. Could this be as simple as some loose connection or faulty switch or something? I don't want to replace the starter if I don't need to, how much life should you get out of a starter?

Somewhat related. Before working on the tranny, I had had the Catalytic Converter replaced and all codes cleared to pass inspection. Almost immediately after finishing the tranny, a couple of codes came back, at least p0420 and p0171. Also there is some lag with power delivery initially when accelerating, even though I have cleaned the MAF.

Any suggestions for where to begin would be great.
Thanks.

[ET ECHO]

You don't have a starter problem. The starter is turning the engine over rapidly. The next things to consider is compression, spark and fuel. Compression should not be an issue as the engine runs good once it is running. That leaves spark and fuel. When you have a no start condition test for a spark at the plugs.

I believe your problem is fuel related. Little or no fuel during initial starting and then you get fuel, a stumble or two and then the engine runs. Also code 0171 is System too Lean. 0420 is Catalyst System Efficiency below Threshold.

I'm just learning the Echo so I can't be too specific. If I can find out more I will post. Hope this helps.

Good Luck.

[the_unliked]

I don't think it's spark or fuel delivery, the engine runs very strong once it's going. When the starter works, it works perfectly, and I had to push start it yesterday, and it took very easily. Thanks for the suggestions, though.

The first time it wouldn't start was for my wife. When I got home, I lifted the hood, toyed with the connections on the starter, and it fired right up. Yesterday, it wouldn't start for me, and checking the connections didn't seem to help. I push started it home, and after a 15 mile drive home, it fired up perfectly.

I keep leaning to the idea that there is a wire or sensor that is loose and is being shifted during normal driving. Anyone have some suggestions as to which ones to check before wrenching things off. Also, would it be wise to take the starter off and have it tested? Where could I take it to test, or is it something I could do at home without blowing the motor?

Thanks again.

[ET ECHO]

Not sure I understand your symptoms. In your first post you stated that your starter "will crank healthily, plenty of juice in the battery". If the starter is turning the engine over then it is good. Perhaps you are now stating it is acting intermittently. Not sure which.

You can take it to an Autozone and have the starter checked for free. Have them check for any codes that are stored.

If the starter is turning the engine over fast, it is not a starter problem.

[the_unliked]

ET ECHO, thanks for all your help so far. I'm beginning to think that an "intermittent starting problem" is exactly what I have and it seems to be getting worse.

I did take it to Autozone, as suggested, but could not replicate the problem for them and there test showed that everything checks out fine.

A guy at Napa said that it could be the internal workings of the starter. As in, if it has one bad brush, it would have a problem starting if it landed on that connection, and then the slight vibration of driving somewhere moves everything just enough to get a good connection. Another guy at Advance Auto, said a very similar thing.

So, when I can get to it, I'm going to take the starter off and see what I can see. My new question, however, is the following;

When I look for the part online, it seems to give me two options for a starter. one is 0.8kw. The other is 1.0kw. Any suggestions on which I would need?

Thanks

[ET ECHO]

Well I sure could not find any info on 2 different starters. Where did you get this info?

Call a local Toyota dealer parts department and find out what starter is needed for your vehicle and get a price. When you take off the starter, find an auto electrical shop in your area and take it there. Have them check it. You may just need some brushes or a new magnetic switch. This will be less expensive than buying a new starter.

If the starter checks out bad get a price on how much for an overhaul of your starter. This should be the less expensive route.

If you have many miles on your starter it may just need a rebuild. Brushes wear out. Dirt gets in the internal parts. Commutator and coil develop problems. The magnetic switch could have problems.That is what the auto shops are refering to.

If the starter checks out good then you may have some electrical problem and will need to do some electrical troubleshooting. First thing to check is the engine starter relay. Make sure it is good. After that it is checking things with a meter. But get the starter checked out first.