Newly Rebuilt 22rec, ...SAME OLD PROBLEM! lol..

[chefourunner]

Hey Guys, nice to meet you. I'm going to get to the issue at hand. First what I'm running;

I have a 87 4Runner with 260k Miles, rebuilt at 259.98, lol. It's a 22rec, Fully Rebuilt, .30 Over, 261 RV cam, Cold Air Intake by LCE, LCE CAT Back Exhaust with 2.25" pipes and 2.25CAT, Borla(medium on the noise scale)and 2.25" out the back, Fully serviced and 190-rated RC Injectors and CSI, Steel Guide Chain and New Cover, New Radiator, High-Vol. H20 and Oil Pumps, New HD Daikin Clutch-Full kit and New Clutch Master and Slave, New Rotors, Calipers, Drums and Cyl's and more.

Before the build, I had almost exactly the same problem. The problem began 2-3 Months before the build. It would run like crap, cold, then smooth out, upon warming up. However, I always had this annoying TEENY miss. Never thought much about it. Suddenly, started leaking like a pig from the front and rear main, the radiator gave up the ghost, then the water pump AFTER the radiator.....replaced all so I could maybe run it enough to pull codes. Pulled a 2, (O2 Sensor). Replaced with Denso O2, the problem suddenly changed to running great cold, then like crap upon initially going into open loop, then it would smooth out after fully warming up to optimum coolant temp. Slowly, it got worse, the missing did as well. It would do what it's doing now, ......when it starts acting up, just warming up, I'd take off up the street to get more of a sense of things, and IT WAS TOTALLY hesitating. Around 2500rpms, BAT OUT OF HELL, full power, and by the time I got around the block, it would smooth out. I looked into the timing chain. Tore it down, removed the crank bolt and the Harmonic and Crank pulley fell on the ground. COG key had worn to 1/32nd of and inch left! lol. GOT LUCKY, yes. So, rebuilt it, started it up, and here I am, with the same issue of crappy initial open loop, .....except now, ...it's gotten to where it will clear up if I drive it in that range of hiccuping, but now, even when fully warm, when sitting at an idle it will eventually idle down and run very rough again. If I kill the motor and restart it, it seems to purr for a few seconds and then back to idling down.

Other things I've replaced(I get wholesale and some things for free, so I DID NOT throw money at it, promise! lol)

List of replaced things;

1. New Denso O2
2. New Denso Coolant Temp Sensor
3. New Denso Thermo-Temp-Time Switch(in thermostat housing)
4. New Denso Plugs, aftermarket Cap, Rotor and 8.5 MM Wires(Seems to have plenty of spark...thus, bat out of hell syndrome when forcing it out of the hiccup....Plus, tested the new wires, seem fine)
5. New Radiator, W-Pump and OEM Thermostat
6. New Battery and Alternator
7. Fully cleaned out intakes and Throttle Body
8. All new OEM Vacuum Lines, including IACV and PCV and Front lrg. hose-to-Upper intake
9. NO liquid leaks, whatsoever.
10. Tried to burp the system but could use second opinion on the best way to do so.

Things I have not replaced;

1. IACV
2. AFM(ohm readings seemed a bit out of whack)
3. TPS(ohm readings " " " " " " )
4. BVSV
5. EGR or EGR Modulator(Solenoid)
6. VSV or Idle Up Valve on front of Valve Cover
7. Idle up valve on Throttle Body for P/Steering, etc.
8. Fuel Pressure Regulator
9. Damper
10. Gas Cap(OH GOOD LORD it can't be! lol)
11. Fuel Pump(Have one just haven't had time last couple days)
12. EFI Relay, Open Circuit Relay is 5mo. old, etc.
13. ECU is original, as far as I know.

Sorry for making this long, I just thought it best to be as thorough as possible. If there's ANYTHINGGGGGGG someone has to interject, PLEASE don't think it's pointless, please just share? Anything I might have done that is asked or that I remember I will add as I go.

Thanks, in advance, a 41 Year Old Grandpa who is REALLY at his whits end! lol.

Here's some Pics of the Truck and motor for the heck of it.........

[chefourunner]

Bumpity Bump......Just messin, .....kinda, lol.

[chefourunner]

UPDATE;

First off, I've heard this Forum is not the most heavy traffic section. Would it be ok to post it in the pre-88 Pickup section as well?

Ok, sooooooooo, lol......

I had some advice on checking for vacuum to the Fuel Pressure Regulator(supplied by or relayed through the VSV, right?). When hooking the vacuum line from the "VSV?" to the Fuel Pressure Regulator, when cold, it read 15" and crawled up to 18" and held, pretty quickly. While doing this, I noticed that when removing the tester, it would idle up slightly, then back down slightly when plugging again.

THEN; I noticed it was going into open loop and dropping in idle, etc.(within 1 min. max, it does this, as it did this time as well), and noticed that the vacuum pressure going to the tester was dropping in tandem with the rough running spasms by the motor, .....from 18" down to 15", then jump back up to 18" when smoother(the motor ). Then, I removed the vacuum line from the tester, leaving it open to suck air, and it would smooth out, idle up and while it was still having a lil hiccup/miss, it was something most people wouldn't worry about too much(pupping in the exhaust, NOT POPPING, JUST PUPPING, LOL....like it does, every few seconds or so, not in any constant repetition----erratic pupping and not constant, ok???// lol)

THEN; I tried one more thing, not sure what it's telling me but whatever, right? I hooked the hose back to the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and it dropped to 500rpm's again, wanting to bog out and seeming like it's missing, etc. When I'd remove it again, it would idle back up to 750-800(sorry, the idle screw is IMPOSSIBLE to get right at the moment...it isn't getting enough air unless I have it out quite a bit, kwi-mean?).

Also, by this time, it had entered that 'OPEN LOOPYPOOPY NIGHTMARE, and had been in it for a while, Yet STILL, when removing the vacuum to the FPRegulator, it seemed to idle back up again. However, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be reading from this, so I'm just guessing, but it seems that something between the VSV(RIGHT????...THE Green sucker on the valve cover with a few lines, including the one to the FPRegulator)...something between that and the FPR or something that is related to reading those three is FUBAR! Could it be that the either the FPR or VSV are not operating properly or that something related to reading them(ie. coolant sensing thing, like the BVSV or something) is FUBAR?

I CAN FEEL THAT I'M CLOSE, GUYS, please point me in the right direction?

[chefourunner]

........BUMPITYBUMPITYBUMPBUMP???? Nothing? Anything you need me to add, guys, please let me know?

I checked the vacuum from VSV hose to Fuel Pressure Regulator(disconnecting the FPR), and the vacuum was ok, but not great. 15-18". Seeing that everything is new within and intake and head were plum, I doubt it's the surfaces. When I disconnected the hose, though, it went from that initial open loop hiccup to smoothed out a bit(not perfect, but MUCH better and higher idle). When plugging the hose, it was still smoother, but when hooking it back to the FPR, back to crap again. I was told it should be smoother when the FPR is hooked up, not the other way around. I was also told to check the fuel pressure in the rail, so looking into that as well. But I'd really appreciate some input, guys.

I know you're all busy, so I promise I'm not whining about no responses......I was just hopeful that someone would at least chime in with a try or two?

Thanks, again, in advance,

Chef

[chefourunner]

Ok, well, I'll just keep posting what I've done, etc., .....at least I'll have a checklist to go back through, lol.

Today;

1. Replaced the fuel pump as I already had a new Aisin and it's a new motor, injectors, etc....so why not, eh?
2. Did an EGR test, pumping vacuum INTO the EGR with vacuum plugged and it stalled like it should, so not likely the EGR.
3. Did a BVSV test, pumping vacuum into the lower inlet(pipe) and Vacuum Gauge on the upper inlet(pipe), ....it read vacuum with the motor warmed up, so not likely the problem either.(although the test didn't add whether or not the gauge should hold that vacuum, ...which it did not)

Probably going to do a more in-depth test on the AFM, VSV and a few other things, tomorrow.

PLEASE, GUYS, any ideas will be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks,

Mark

[jetwhine]

chefourunner,

I have read all the posts that you have made and I have a suggestion for you. I would check the null setting on the throttle body. Its the setting you check with the feeler gauge. It is most important that this setting is correct. It sets the whole tone for the Throttle function. And if that does not cure your problem then I would look into the AFM. Also the throttle body must be removed to do it correctly. If you decide to do this you might want to have a Throttle Body gasket handy for the re-installation.

[jetwhine]

chefourunner,

Any luck?

[chefourunner]

Hey Jetwhine, ....sorry, been SO FREAKY BUSY! lol...

I've been on it off and on for the last couple weeks when I had time. Recently, a guy from Yotatech, working in Carson, with LOTS of experience and his dealership brother on the phone at times, left stumped after 10 hours the first day. We checked EVERYTHING and replaced the TPS as mine was heading south on resistance. The next day, he came back with a donor ECU and it solved 80% of the problems(we think, lol)> It stopped idling down and wanting to die, immediately, and in fact, it began to do the opposite at times, ....It would start cold, a lil rough and low idle, but quickly when feathering the throttle come up to 750 or so. Then, it would eventually head up to 1000 after driving around a lil and want to stay there. This caused that fuel cut off issue to happen at stopping, but we figured that out quickly and moved on to other things.

Two days ago, my oil pressure began to read really low, as I headed back from a SCORE from my local yard. It ended up being the Oil sender had vibrated and screwed itself out 1 and 1/4 turns! lol... New build, WAY more oil pressure, ...guessing that's what caused it to finally leak out the threads and loosen. Tightened that down and it seems to be fine and actually, it's not idling so OFF anymore, but still there.

The Throttle Body MOST DEFINITELY might be an issue, Jetwhine.... When at that yard, I got an SR5 gauge panel(my temp gauge is heading out), a CSI time switch, Throttle body with new TPS(from a rolled truck that ran PERFECT right in front of me! Also got the IACV, both VSV's(mine are cracked on one and not working I believe on the AC one), all for 100$ from the yard! (he sent me on that 6 hour drive to Fontana for NOTHING, lol....so he felt bad and called me, telling me "Got a great running 87 coming in, you get first dibs on whatever you want!) SOLLLLLLLLLLD! LOL. My Throttle body sticks when trying to close, and even adjusted, I think it just has too much plate-play, ya know? So, that's next, and I'll let you know if it solves the problem.

Here's my trouble shooting thread on Yotatech if anyone is interested.....
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/87-4run...needed-213514/ ....but go to this page to bypass the first 8 pages,lol....
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/87-4run...14/index9.html

Also, if anyone is interested in my build thread(lots of good nuggets in there and solutions to some common problems when installing/reconnecting/clutch kit/ etc. for those thinking of starting over fresh....
http://www.yotatech.com/f199/chefyot...ild-up-210796/

28 PAGES on that second one, hahaha. So, if you know how to fish through the threads, you should be able to find some helpful nuggets if you're having problems that I have faced.

[jetwhine]

Chefourunner,

I hope that throttle body fixes the problem. That was a good find on all those parts found at the yard.

[chefourunner]

Thanks Jetwhine,

ME 2! lol.... Yeah, I was so stoked, ...half the time it's hard to get parts as it is, but...all off a PERFECT running rolled 87? Yep, I got blessed!