6 cyl 4-Runner won't start - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums


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2nd Generation (1990-1995) Discussion area for the second generation Toyota 4Runner.

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Old 05-10-2012, 08:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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6 cyl 4-Runner won't start

1992 4-Runner, 6 cylinder engine, Manual Transmission.

I have worked on vehicles a bunch but I don't know much about 4-Runners. I have only had this a year or so.

Was out for a little highway drive end of December.
Started feeling like it was loosing power. I initially thought it was a stiff headwind that was causing slow down.
Lack of power began to seem more weird. I stopped and checked the air cleaner. That looked fine.
Got another 5 miles or so and it was definitely having problems. Slowed down to turn around and the engine died.

Now no start.

I am thinking that this is fuel related; maybe fuel pump or filter issue.

I did fill up with gas at a regular busy station about 30 miles before this problem started.
I don't think it is bad gas or water in the tank. Could be though... How do I check on that?
Is there a drain plug in the fuel tank? I didn't think to look when I was under there.

Temperature was 45 or 50 degrees. I don't think anything would have been freezing up.
It was ~70 degrees yesterday and the symptoms are still the same.

I don't know how to check if it is getting fuel. I am more used to being able to dribble gas into a carburetor. I don't know how do something like that with the fuel injection. I saw some references to 'check pressure at the fuel rail' but I have no idea where to start on that without some further explanation or details.

I got a new fuel filter but can't get my long wrench in between the transfer case and the frame rail to hold the nut on the outgoing fuel line.
I am working on getting a different wrench. Anybody have any special tricks?

I seem to find info that the fuel pump is inside the tank on this? I tried some looking and found it said to 'drain the tank' but I didn't find anything where it said if I have to actually drop the tank? or if there is maybe an access panel under the carpet in the back somewhere to be able to get to the fuel pump.
Should I be able to hear the fuel pump running?

Cranking seems a little weird, not smooth.
I don't know if lack of fuel makes engine cranking sound weird or not.
I hope it isn't compression/piston issues. I haven't done any compression checking.

I don't know if a MassAirFlow sensor or ThrottlePositionSensor is a regular issue with 4-Runners or not. ?

I thought this might be a simple case of change a jammed up fuel filter or replace a non-functioning fuel pump but I don't know now.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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jsurdahl,

Lots of questions, but do the simple things first. There is a diagnostic port in the engine compt. close to the battery. You need to short sockets FP and B+ then turn the key on and go listen at the fuel tank and see if you can hear the fuel pump running. If it is, then try to start the engine. If you don't hear anything then you may have a pump failure or a wiring problem. By shorting those sockets, you are bypassing the relays that control the pump, and give it a direct power source with the key turned on. That is were I would start. The only problem that I can see with this procedure is if you had contaminated fuel, then you may have a clogged fuel filter which won't let much fuel to the system. My feeling is that the fuel pump might be failing.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I tried the 'short sockets FP and B+' procedure.
I can HEAR the sound at the gas tank that is probably the fuel pump running.
Still no start.

When I crank it over after it has been sitting a couple of days, it does seem to fire and then it dies. When I keep trying, it won't even try to start.

I did loosen the banjo nut on the end of the left side fuel rail and fuel sprayed out like it did have pressure in it. I don't have a pressure gauge to really check the fuel pressure.

I tried spraying starting fluid in at the air cleaner yesterday and it didn't even try to start.

It looks like getting fuel might not be the problem.

What next?

Last edited by jsurdahl; 07-05-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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jsurdahl,

Fuel, Fire, Air. Sounds like you have fuel. Next you need to check for fire. Remove a sparkplug and see if it is getting spark.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The EFI relay under the hood, if bad, will kill fire and fuel. If your getting fuel only when you jumped the wires you're jumping the relay and pump works. I've replaced about four until we tracked down burned up wire from battery to relay box. The first time we replaced it, I tested the relay and it tested out good but it was bad. Might be the problem.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If you did the test as said and you get the pump to run then the EFI relay is ok and there is a fire problem. The only relay you are jumping is the circuit opening relay, not the EFI relay. The EFI relay supplies power to the pump through the circuit opening relay. If you hear the pump when jumped you may have more than one problem. You also need to verify that when the key is turned on without jumping the pins, the pump runs. If it does not then you may have either a bad circuit opening relay or a bad fuel pump switch in the volume air flow meter. You may still have a fire problem but the later must be confirmed first. If all else is good and it is just a bad relay or VAFM then the rig would still start when jumped.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I finally got back to this one more time. No go.

I plugged a screw driver into one of the spark plug wires and shorted it close to ground. While cranking, it does have spark.
I pulled the spark plug out and the gap is GONE. Not just a gap there but a SPACE. LOTS of space.
The electrodes are burned down bad.
I don't know when spark plugs have ever been checked or changed.

I put in new spark plugs all around.
Most of them were a little squeaky getting out. Feels like the threads are tight for a number of full turns getting them out. I turned the plugs in and out and in and out while removing to not strip out the heads. Put never-sieze on the threads of the plugs when I put in the new ones. They felt like they went in good.

Now, still no change. No start. No try to start except the once at the beginning.
It only seems to try to fire once when I first try it.
After is has been sitting for a couple of days it will seem to fire once, again, but not any more with anything else I have tried.

I had the air intake boxes and tubes off to change the spark plugs.
I tried spraying a little starting fluid directly into the air intake and tried starting. No go. No try.
So it still seems it is probably not solely a fuel issue.

I did get spark from the ONE plug wire to ground with a screw driver so I assume the coil isn't bad.
Maybe I should try for spark on the other wires. Should I just get new wires?

I plan to get a new cap and rotor and replace those. They don't LOOK bad.
Is it better to get cap and rotor and wires from the dealer or are after market parts good or better?

Any other NEXT things to try?

Last edited by jsurdahl; 06-03-2012 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you crank the engine and it runs for just a split second then check the mass air flow meter.

Also, if the coil-igniter assy. is not bolted-down tight you won't get a good ground, and sometimes you'll get a spark and sometimes you won't.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Check ignitor or distributor
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If your plugs were that bad, then I would think that it is time to do the basic tune-up. Wires, rotor, cap, fuel filter, air filter, you have already changed the plugs. That just might help. You might also want to make sure that the cold start injector is pulsing fuel out when trying to start, which would require it being pulled and hooked up to the fuel line and checked.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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fuel filter

If you are still working on the fuel filter I can tell you how I changed my yesterday. It doesn't require any special tricks or tools. Mine is a '90 and the filter might have been the original.
Let me know and I will walk you through it.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlmccook54 View Post
If you are still working on the fuel filter I can tell you how I changed my yesterday. It doesn't require any special tricks or tools. Mine is a '90 and the filter might have been the original.
Let me know and I will walk you through it.
I finally got some tubing wrenches. Working on fuel filter.
It might be the original filter. A walk through might be useful.


It just strange that it seems to have spark and fuel but won't fire.

I think I need to check the mass air flow meter.
Maybe check throttle position sensor.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The line at the rear of the filter can be loosened by a 14mm open end wrench on the fitting on the line and a 19mm on the shoulder on the filter. I had to use a product called blaster that you spray on to break frozen stuff loose. It had to sit for a day to get it loose. You ought to wear safety glasses, too. The front fuel line I could hold the fitting on the line stationary with the 14mm then turn the filter by putting the 19mm on the shoulder on the rear of the filter. This is after you have taken the clamp that holds the filter in place loose. Again it took a good spray of blaster. I made the mistake when I installed the new filter of tightening the front fitting before I threaded the rear fitting on. Loosening the front fitting so it only had a couple of threads gave the filter the wiggle room so I could get the rear fitting to thread smoothly. I hope this makes sense and it helps.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Ignitor or ignition coil
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I finally got the fuel filter changed. What a big pain!!
I couldn't get enough grip and crank with a crowsfoot to get the tubing nut loose off of the filter. I ended up cutting the tubing a few inches ahead of the filter and finally got the whole assembly out. I put a box end wrench on the filter and cranked a pair of ViseGrips tight on the tubing nut and whackked on the ViseGrips with a hammer and the tubing finally came loose. I put a piece of fuel hose and clamps over the tubing when I put it back together.

I get lots of fuel at the banjo nut on the fuel rail. It seems to have lots of pressure.
I don't have a gauge and fittings to really check the pressure but it seems like plenty.
I didn't run the fuel pump with the banjo nut loose before I changed the filter so I don't know for sure if it was getting fuel, but I don't think that the original filter was completely plugged up.

Still no start.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsurdahl View Post
I did get spark from the ONE plug wire to ground with a screw driver so I assume the coil isn't bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burny View Post
Ignitor or ignition coil
I guess I can try and check the other wires at the plugs.

I did look at the bolts holding the catalytic converter in the exhaust system. They are rusted in real tight. I hope I don't have to take that apart to try and see if the cc is plugged up.


I am just about ready to take this to a shop somewhere and pay them to work on it.
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