Oil light on - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

1bosshog2 · 02-08-2011, 10:18 AM

The oil light started coming on intermittently the other day. No bad noises from the engine. Pulled the lower oil pan off, oil p/u tube screen was gunked up pretty good. Sludge was everywhere on the bottom of the pan and around the upper pan. Next step is to pull the upper pan off for cleaning, but the front exhaust has to come off. It's welded together before and after the catalytic converter. Is there a better place to cut off the exhaust pipe(ahead of the converter or behind it)? I don't want to mess anything up. This has turned into quite a project, but I'm hoping I can nurse it back to health. Valve covers are next to come off, but I screwed up and didn't relieve the fuel pressure before taking all the oil out. I know I can pull the front off, but to do the back properly it looks like the plenum has to come off.

1bosshog2 · 02-08-2011, 10:27 AM

1998 xle sienna, bought it used in 02. About 164,000 miles on it now.

**TOYOPARTSMAN** · 02-08-2011, 11:52 AM

The exaust pipe should just unbolt, you shouldn't have to cut it. But, you have a more pressing issue, The sienna's when faced with a sludge issue, each and everyone the bare minimum parts that have to be replaced are:

Both Valve covers & gaskets
PCV valve
oil pump
oil pick up tube.

You'll just have to trust me on this that after thousands of sludge jobs that I know of, we have not been able to successfully clean out one of these parts. Now, if you are doing the work yourself and you don't spend any money or very little, you may be able to baby it together, but the screens inside the valve covers are not accessible to cleaning and are probably clogged closed.

The next question in line will be how do the rings and bearings look and worse case scenario, it may need a block.

I hope you are successful, but should you have any questions, Don't hesitate to ask, I'll do my best.

1bosshog2 · 02-08-2011, 12:47 PM

I'm scared of what it's gonna look like when I pull the valve covers off. Now if I'm not mistaken the new replacements that I buy will fit the '98, but are of the new design? Whoever did the exhaust work welded the bolt on connection together in between the cat. and muffler. Is there any way to relieve the fuel pressure without the motor running? Thanks for your help, any and all pointers are most welcome!

wiswind · 02-08-2011, 09:10 PM

I have a 2003 Sienna.
I have NOT relieved the fuel pressure, but did not need to do that in order to remove the front and rear valve cover.
I would order some Felpro valve cover gaskets.
Also, while you are doing the work of removing the rear valve cover, this would be an ideal time to change the spark plugs, if they have not been changed.
I would use ONLY the DENSO or NKG plug of the number specified as OEM for your year.
This number should be listed on the under hood sticker and in your owner's manual.
They used different plug numbers for different years within the 1998-2003 model years.

My 2003 uses a metal PCV valve that screws into the rear valve cover.
Earlier years use the traditional press in version.
I would install a NEW PCV valve.
Once you clear up the sludge, it will be CRITICAL to check the PCV valve to make sure that deposits do not build up on it to the point of restricting or blocking airflow through it.....or you WILL develop sludge.
Maybe every 6 months to a year between inspections.

As mentioned, if you have sludge in the valve covers, the TOYOTA solution is to REPLACE the valve covers.
The reason for this is that there is a baffel that is spot welded in place, which covers much of the "top" of the valve cover (inside).
Once sludge (which is hard) builds up between the top of the baffel and the bottom surface of the top of the valve cover, it WILL block flow of air into the front valve cover through the breather and out of the rear valve cover through the PCV valve.
Trying to disolve this buildup (above the baffel) with solvents has not been successful, which is why replacment of the valve covers is the way to go if they are sludged up.
If you do not have this airflow, you WILL develop sludge.
THIS IS CRITICAL.

The front valve cover is not hard to remove.
The rear valve cover is a bit of work.....you need to remove the intake manifold.
I did not separate the throttle body from the intake manifold or disconnect any fuel lines.
I was able to move the whole assembly enough to access the rear valve cover.
There are some bolts that you have to remove that hold the upper intake manifold to a bracket on the back side of the motor.
I show the location of these, and the bolt sizes in my pictures.
Again, note that I have a 2003, but the bolt locations and sizes should be pretty much the same for other 1st gen. Some of the vaccum lines, and grounds, etc will be different and the 2003 has a dual throttle body.....so the throttle body assembly is bigger.
Manuvering the rear valve cover around that big bunch of wires back there is a job......be SUPER careful to avoid pulling the rear valve cover gasket out of place (particularly the back side) or you will have a nice big oil leak back there.
The upper intake manifold on my 2003 has a couple of 8mm hex bolts, so you will need a 8mm hex bit....I bought a set at Autozone (your tranny drain plug takes a 10mm hex bit).

NOTE that there are coolant lines to and from the throttle body.

Your 1998 does not have the VVT-i on the intake cam, so you will not have the VVT cylinder on that cam, but otherwise yours should be very similar.

Use CARE to avoid knocking chunks of sludge down into the motor from the area under the valve covers......as this could block oil flow.

My pictures show the slightly longer oil filter that I use.
This would be the SAME size as for your 1998.

A good toyota dealership is a good source of quality parts.
Genuine TOYOTA parts are often very competitive in pricing with aftermarket.

A link to my pictures.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/576572371kcnZsT

I had a local TOYOTA dealership replace the timing belt and water pump as it is a more involved job than I am comfortable with.
They were cheaper than many independant shops for the same job at around $500.
The timing belt change interval is 90K miles.
The spark plugs are rated for 100K to 120K miles (but getting back to remove the rear valve cover, you have done 90%+ of the work involved in changing the spark plugs).

Most likely the actual cause of the oil light coming on was the clogged pickup for the oil pump that you found.
If you knock a bunch of chunks loose up top.....they could well clog the pickup screen again.
One product that I have used as a oil additive for cleaning is AutoRX, as it is a slower, more gentle cleaner (disolves rather than chunks) than a "motor flush".
If you use AutoRX (available online), follow the instructions on their website.

1bosshog2 · 02-09-2011, 09:48 AM

Wiswind, thank you for taking the time to type up all of that info. It will help me out a lot and I'm sure save me quite a bit of time. As soon as I get the upper oil pan off, I'm going to start on the valve covers, weather permitting. And I'm gonna have to dig up some $$$ for new valve covers and oil pump. Also have a code p1300 showing for #1 Igniter Circuit Malfunction, but am not too concerned with that til I get the oil mess under control.

Thanks again for your help. I'll keep this updated as I get the work done.

wiswind · 02-09-2011, 09:59 PM

Thought that I would add.
I HIGHLY recommend that you get a good repair manual....Genuine TOYOTA is very good.
I located one specifically for the 2003 model year on ebay.
I also have a subscription to alldatadiy for my vehicle, which is identical to most of what is in the Toyota manual.
Alldata gives you the TSB's for your vehicle and is constantly being updated.
Chilton's is just not as complete.
My pictures should help, along with the repair manual.....but are not the complete source, particularly since I am not a mechanic.
No repair manual is going to have enough pictures.

Also, you can register your vehicle for FREE on the TOYOTA website.
You use your VIN and this will give you access to all service that has been done on your vehicle at any TOYOTA dealership and also list any open recalls that may be present for your vehicle.
You also get free access to a online version of the owner's manual, if you don't have one.

1bosshog2 · 02-22-2011, 10:26 PM

Well I haven't had much time to work on the van except I had it towed to an indoor shop where I can work on it. I have a dumb question. I can't find the oil pickup tube/screen for my sienna anywhere online, even on the toyota parts websites. Am I going to have to go to a local dealer to order this? I've seen Melling pickup tubes online, but that's about it.

The exhaust pipe nuts under the manifold won't budge, so I may have to clean the upper oil pan the best that I can with it attached. I've soaked them for over a week with a penetrating oil. I don't know what else to try.

1bosshog2 · 02-23-2011, 05:47 PM

Not as scary as I thought it was gonna be, but it's built up pretty bad on the left side.

[URL="http://http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z360/1bosshog2/frontvalvecover.jpg"]

[URL="http://http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z360/1bosshog2/frontvalvecover1.jpg"]

wiswind · 02-23-2011, 07:04 PM

It may be slightly worse under the rear valve cover as this is where the air exits the motor through the PCV valve.
The front gets a flow of clean air from the breather.

I went to www.toyotapartszone.com
It is BEST to enter your Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and search using that.....as this will give you the MOST accurate parts list for your vehicle.

Without a VIN.......
I selected "sienna"
Then I selected 1998
Then I just clicked on "search"

You get a choice of 4 "Section"s to choose from.
I selected the top one "Tool/Engine/Fuel"

From the list of "Components", I selected "Oil Pump"
At this point, another list of parts comes up, including "strainer sub-assembly, Oil" for $33.02
Part number 15104-0A010 replaced by 15104-20020

Just above the list of parts......in blue print there is a line "(9708-) Get Info"
Click on the "Get Info" button.
A new window should open up on your computer.
In the new window, click on the "go" button
A digram should now be displayed showing the parts.....including the pickup screen....which seems to include the tube to the oil pump.
There is another part number for the gasket where the pickup tube mounts to the oil pump.

In the upper right corner of the diagram window is a button to "Enlarge diagram in a new window" to get a bigger diagram.

This site has the BEST parts diagrams and parts breakdown that I have seen outside of a dealership.

I am not connected in any way with the dealership in the link.
I have bought from them as their prices are close to others that I have found online, and they have the excellent diagrams and part lists.

1bosshog2 · 02-23-2011, 09:53 PM

Thanks Wiswind for breaking it down. I see the oil pickup screen, but I can't find valve covers on there. I might be looking too hard or am simply overlooking them. I shot them an email about that. Tomorrow I'm gonna grab the VIN off the van just to be safe.

Found them, just overlooked them. Been staring at the screen too long I think.

1bosshog2 · 03-07-2011, 05:07 AM

Had a few hours each day this past week to work on getting to the rear valve cover. Boy is that a chore! Wiswind has the best and easiest to follow instructions on doing it. Thanks again for taking the time to document and photograph it Wiswind. I don't think I would have ever attempted it otherwise. I taped and labeled every hose, plug, and whatever else that came unplugged/unbolted. The back was definitely sludged up more than the front. Now I've got to clean that crud out and order the new valve covers. Looking at next week due to work.

http://s1185.photobucket.com/albums/...t=downsize.jpg

wiswind · 03-08-2011, 08:52 PM

When you put the rear valve cover in place, that big wire harness will make it tough to get the rear valve cover into place without messing up the position of the valve cover gasket.....so take your time to make SURE that it is in the correct position before putting the bolts in.....it will want to slide, roll, or otherwise pull out of place.

My pictures show the oversized oil filter that I use.
You might think about getting a FRAM XG3600 filter, which is the longer version of the standard filter.
Make sure to get the Extra Guard, which will have the XG before the 3600.
This is their best filter......it has a media that will filter better and give you a lot more capacity.
I would go a SHORT oil change interval for the next several oil changes.
I am thinking as low as 500 miles.....but REALLY keep and eye on things and don't be afraid to change even sooner if you need to.

1bosshog2 · 03-09-2011, 05:27 AM

After it all goes back together I was thinking about driving the car for an hour or so and then changing the oil. If that bunch looks good then at 500 miles change it again. I will put that bigger filter on there too. I still have the P1300(Igniter Circuit Malfunction) code to deal with too. I was thinking about buying 1 coil and swapping it out with the originals to see if one is acting up.

Black Sunshine · 03-09-2011, 01:42 PM

Just switch the coils around with each other to see if one is acting up. The misfire code should tell you which one is giving you trouble. Switch it with one of the others. Either that or switch them all around and see if the code changes. You've already got them off. Just put them back in different places.