K&N air filter '01 Sienna

[ToyToyota]

hello! there ever1! so i wanted to change my parents minivan air-filter. i thought about putting on a short-ram and a cold-air intake. but i did not have the proper machine-shop. i know this 3.0L V6 packs a punch! so i went to AutoZone and ordered an K&N drop-in replacement air filter! now the car saves at the least one key on the gas meter! at first i thought it was just lean injectors. i was wrong, i had the dealer mech. tech. check the van out. he said everything was find! he checked the oil, and said the car is running great! so i told him about the filter. he said that is the power adder. i can feel more power driving around @ 20-30mph, even at 90mph. now the van is quicker and shifts gears(auto) more quietly.

get yours! it really works! and i'll save you gas $
* my parents travel more than 100miles a day!
* the K&N air-filter, has a warranty that no one has!!!!!

*~$60, but will save you more $!!!!!

K&N DROP- IN REPLACEMENT FOR LIFE! 2001 TOYOTA Sienna 3.0L V6 F/I - All
part # 33-2145-1


----ToyToyota

[NiGHTMaR3]

sounds like more of an AD

[cfacmc]

Hi - glad to see you are pleased with the K&N for the time being. Mine just cost me $2200 in repairs. My shop had a TechTip that explained the K&N loads the mass air flow sensor with oil, which can the burn out the knock sensors, and cause the computer to indicate either lean or rich run condition, which puts a load on the fuel pump, causing it to fail and put out below norm pressure. My mileage dropped to a dismal 15-16 mpg. I ran K&N for 2 1/2 years, and that is exactly what happened to me. Now I have factory recommended air filter, a BUNCH of new parts, and my van runs good again! The K&N will make a difference for the short run, but in my case cost me a LOT more than it saved...

[strongone]

installed K&N two years ago and have had zero problems

[Taco Wizard]

I agree toytoyota's post looks and sounds like an ad!

However, cfacmc doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about. K&N filters loading the mass air flow sensor with oil, burning out knock sensors (BTW, there is no such type of failure as 'burning out your knock sensors'), overloading fuel pumps, etc. is pure urban myth.

Go to K&N's website and look up the tech info for yourself. There you will find exhaustive test results that show that the air flow velocity through a K&N is not fast enought to 'blow' (suck?) the air filter oil off the filter element!

You will also see an in depth analysis of a number of failed mass air flow sensors supposedly 'caused' by K&N filters. Eeach and every mass air flow sensor that they autopsied, turned out to have some other problem that was NOT caused by the K&N filter. You will also see a statement from K&N guaranteeing assistance to you if the dealer you take your car to tries to tell you that they will not cover the mass air flow sensor because it failed due to K&N filter usage.

Be smart. Do your research homework first. Do not buy into the uninformed opinions of every Tom, Dick & Cfacmc posting on the internet!

[cfacmc]

I realize that even repair shops can be big liars - in fact (this is so old I got rid of the Toyota van a long time ago!!!) they broke the driver side mirror, and tried to deny it, but their guy stuck an old radiator gasket behind the mirror to try to hold it in place. I now believe they had no idea what they were taking about, since my 79 MGB is using K&N for the Weber carb for a long time, but I believe my mileage in that car is due to the 1800cc engine, small size, and light weight combined with OD for hiway use, and has no credit due K&N. As a word of warning, I would never trust this repair shop to even change my oil again. It is Mazvo Auto Repair, 4710 N 7th St, Phoenix, AZ. Sad to say, once they have your vehicle torn apart and it doesn't run, you are stuck with the repairs regardless of the facts or after-the-fact research. But I never did see K&N guarantee they would cover any engine repairs, and in my experience, PRIOR to the repair issue, my gas mileage never went up even immediately after installing both air filter and oil filter, which is one of K&N's big ad points. So I have a less than even chance of believing K&N in view of my actual experience with their products. That Sienna never got better than about 15-16 in town, and maybe with a tailwind 20 - 22 mpg on the highway - both before AND after installing K&N's wonderful filters. I have a Chevrolet Malibu with a slightly bigger engine that gets much better mileage than the Sienna ever did. So the big point I believe is that engine size to a degree, plus vehicle GVW and driving habits will have a MUCH larger affect on mileage than spending the extra money for K&N. I don't care about research - I have seen some mighty wild claims for automotive products. I am talking actual experience with K&N in three different vehicles all with the same lack of great mileage increase AFTER spending the money and installing K&N.

So, in spite of your less than friendly response, research be damned. I am old enough to have real life experience to believe in, not just pumped-up hype intended to sell products. And I found what appears to be a very unreliable auto repair shop to avoid.

[Taco Wizard]

Hello cfacmc, This is where I will apologize one time for coming on a little strong. Everything I write is based on the laws of physics, and math, backed up with a healthy dose of research & development, scientific experimentation and real world experience. And, let’s face it, the load of baloney you had previously posted was some pretty bad mis-information... It sounds like you had a poor experience with a less than honest repair shop.

Now, why didn't you get a fuel mileage increase when installing a drop in K&N air filter? The simple answer boils down to two things:

1) The plain and simple fact is that drop in K&N filters generally do not increase the air flow all that much in a stock air box. It is not so much the fault of K&N, but the reality is that the stock air box only has so many square inches of air filter area. It is like making you run and having you breathe through a straw as opposed to a 2" pipe. Drop in the K&N filter, and it is like letting you breathe through two straws. It is certainly an improvement, but there is still a considerable amount of air flow restriction. Having said that, please keep in mind that the K&N drop-in air filter does offer less air flow restriction and will give a performance increase, with very little effort.

2) ANY improvement in air flow that you give your engine HAS to be followed up with a like addition of fuel, in order to keep the air fuel ratio correct. For instance, IF the air flow into the engine improves 5%, then you have to increase the fuel delivery by 5% as well. The additional fuel simply puts the engine back to its ideal stoichiometric (air to fuel) ratio of 14.7:1. If your engine is fuel injected, you need to re-program the ECM, or increase the fuel pressure, or any of a number of other tricks. If your engine is carbureted, you simply increase the size of the main jet.

If you increase the air flow through an internal combustion engine AND you add enough fuel to keep the stoichiometric ratio correct, your engine WILL make more power. This is one of those unbreakable laws of physics: If your engine burns more fuel (at the same stoichiometric ratio) the extra fuel used generates more power at the crank! It is this increased power that then allows you to use less throttle, when accelerating, driving, or just cruising down the highway. Less throttle equals increased fuel mileage. Simple right?

Let's look at a real world example. If we want to do a simple comparison of air flow through an air box, one easy, way to do that is by checking the pressure differential (commonly known as vacuum) in the air box. The greater the pressure differential (vacuum) to the outside (or ambient) air pressure, the more restrictive the air filter is, the air box is, or both. We can do this simple test by installing a pressure tap into the air box just down stream of the air filter. The pressure tap is simply a pipe barb screwed into the wall of the air box. We then hook a rubber hose to the barb which is then connected to a magnehelic pressure gage. A magnehelic pressure gage is simply a very sensitive pressure differential (or vacuum) gage.

I recently completed a series of air box flow tests on a 2007, 4.0 liter V-6 Tacoma. All tests were completed on the same day, under the same temperature and barometric pressure conditions.

With the stock paper air filter in the stock air box (stock set-up, as delivered from Toyota) there is a 22" (H2O) pressure differential in the air box at 5500 rpm (red line).

After installing a drop in K&N air filter and the pressure differential dropped to 18". Roughly a 19% reduction in flow restriction. NOTE: This does not mean you now have a 19% increase in air flow! Simply a 19% reduction in flow restriction.

Now, remove the stock air box and install a K&N Cold Air Intake (CAI) kit. The pressure differential now measures 4"! The flow restriction, from the new air filter, going into the intake manifold now is a mere 18% of what it was with the stock air box and stock paper filter. Another way of saying it: You now have an 82% reduction in flow restriction.

Why is this? The stock air filter & the K&N drop in filter each have a surface area of only 55.7 square inches. The conical K&N air filter that comes in the CAI kit has a whopping 130 square inches (2.3 times as much area!). The CAI kit also uses a relatively straight, large diameter tube from the new air filter to the throttle body, as opposed to the convoluted air path of the stock air box.

In Toyota’s defense, the stock air box is designed to be remarkably quiet, easily serviced, water resistant, small in size & weight AND meets intake HC emissions standards. It is also ruggedly built, and will easily meet 100,000 mile service expectations.

In order to ‘add’ the correct amount of fuel to the increased air flow, you simply have to disconnect the battery for five minutes or so. (Pulling the ECM fuse does the same thing without losing all your radio station presets.) My research reveals that all Toyota products with OBD III have this adaptive fuel curve feature.

When the engine is started, after the power interruption, the ECM ‘sees’ how much air is now going into the engine. The ECM then injects the correct amount of fuel based on the newly increased air flow. The result? Increased power! There is a very noticeable ‘seat of the pants’ increase in power with the K&N CAI kit. K&N advertises a 10.3 hp gain at 5000 rpm. I don’t have any doubt that is a true statement. There was also a noticeable increase with the K&N drop-in filter as well, but nowhere near as much of a gain as the CAI kit.

Note, that with a little more math manipulation of the pressure differential readings, we can easily solve for the VOLUME of air going through the air filter. We can also solve for the VELOCITY of the air going through the air filter at any given rpm. It is actually this volume improvement that results in a performance increase. It is the air velocity calculation that proves to us that the K&N air filter oil is NOT being ‘blown’ (sucked?) off the filter and into the intake manifold.

In order to realize the fuel mileage increase that is possible with your new found power, you simply have to drive like you are trying to save fuel. It sounds simple, but the fact is most Americans (including me) could do better when it comes to aggressively saving fuel by adjusting their driving habits.

BTW, I too am old enough to have been around the block, and put no faith in pumped up hype any more than you do. I am a degreed automotive engineer with race car engineering experience, designing race car parts for a living. I am also an ASE certified mechanic, licensed race car driver and airplane pilot. It is the research and engineering that go into any product designed for increased performance that gives me the confidence to bolt it in and try it out. It is the testing of that new product that then validates the design and proves to me that the engineering was correct in the first place, and that the product really does live up to the claims of the manufacturer.

[sub0]

I just put in a K&N for my Van a month ago. I change my driving habit a little because of high gas pricing.
The Van usually take a full tank of gas for 700 - 710 km. And now I can go an extra 30 - 40 Km
I don't know is the filter or is the way I drove. Toyota dealer here usually selling K&N in their part department. But not anymore. I ask them why. They don't give my an answer. I guess they can make more by selling their own product with better control of the inventory.

I was wonder how much the Toyota dealer selling the Oil filter, tranmission oil and anti-freeze (Extra long life) in US. Since I am from Canada. I am going to Montana next 2 weeks maybe I can pick some up if is cheaper.