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Old 03-28-2009, 02:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Brake line bleed procedure for '04 LE

Just replaced front pad & rotors and need to flush the system w/new fluid. Can any one give me some pointers on what to do with the ABS system? Is it any different than bleeding a standard system?
Thx!
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickpthomas View Post
Just replaced front pad & rotors and need to flush the system w/new fluid. Can any one give me some pointers on what to do with the ABS system? Is it any different than bleeding a standard system?
Thx!
Check this out:
http://***************/forum/index.php/topic,375.0.html
well, the forum here is blocking the link... let me just say that it is on
the s i e n n a ___ c h a t forum/index.php/topic,375.0.html

PS: I did the flush with a ABS; just made 110% sure I did not get any air into the sytem (i.e. keep the reservoir full at all times).

Good luck

Last edited by wernermeister; 04-03-2009 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply though no luck with the link. Tried typing manually and cannot get anything to some up. Can you provide again?
Thx!
RT
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickpthomas View Post
Thanks for the reply though no luck with the link. Tried typing manually and cannot get anything to some up. Can you provide again?
Thx!
RT
http://***************/forum/index.php/topic,375.0.html

for the * just type the following letters
siennachat

the link is good once you fill in those words for the *
siennachat/index.php/topic,375.0.html

but with the http:// in front
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i think if u can copy and paste procedure here, it would be great.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wernermeister View Post
http://***************/forum/index.php/topic,375.0.html

for the * just type the following letters
siennachat

the link is good once you fill in those words for the *
siennachat/index.php/topic,375.0.html

but with the http:// in front

"""http://siennachat*.com/forum/index.php/topic,375.0.html[/url]


OK, sorry, I had forgotten that there is also a .com there....
post is too extensive to copy.... several posts plus an attahcment

Just remove the one and only * in the above URL and it's a go
trust me :-)

Last edited by wernermeister; 04-07-2009 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Okay, here it comes...(courtesy of smackyboy1 from siennachat*.com forum; added * to allow source to displayed; also could not find the photo attachments):

Here my illustrated guide to changing out disc brake pads and flushing the brake fluid on a 2007 Sienna XLE Ltd AWD. The old pads are the factory pads and had around 34,000 miles of suburban driving on them. The front had 2-3 mm left and the rears 4 mm. IIRC general recommendation is that the minimum thickness of a brake pad is 2 mm.

I use a Motive pressurized brake bleeder, it makes flushing the brake lines a simple 1 man job. The general recommendation is to replace the brake fluid every 2 years. There are lots of different ways and tools that can be used to flush/bleed brakes: The 2 person manual pedal pushing way, speed bleeder valves, vacuum devices etc.. I happen to use a pressure bleeder so that's what I show.

CREDIT: When I did this brake job I used a print out of a set of instructions w/ photos by ajahearn from the old siennaclub.org site to help orient myself. That's obviously no longer available, so I figured I would document the procedure for this new site.

DISCLAIMER: This is not meant as a step-by-step "how to" guide. I'm just hitting the main points and providing photos I am assuming you have some clue how to SAFELY jack up a car and remove the wheels and that you know a little bit about brakes. If you've never ever taken the wheels off a car before, get a more detailed guide or find someone with experience to help you. This is not too difficult with the right tools, but screwing up your brakes can get ugly. This DIY is if there are no problems with the brakes. If the rotors need changing or need to be turned or there is some other problem, it is beyond the scope of this guide. Examine your brake discs before taking the wheels off, are they are cracked, or scored, or grooved, or uneven? Under normal braking(not ABS), if the brake pedal feels like it is pulsing, the rotors may be uneven. If so then you may need professional help. I AM NOT A TRAINED MECHANIC, I AM JUST SOME GUY YOU HAVE NEVER MET POSTING ON THE INTERNET, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night Grin

#1 TIP: After you have completed changing the pads and flushing the brake lines. DO NOT PUT THE CAR IN DRIVE/REVERSE UNTIL YOU HAVE PUMPED THE BRAKE PEDAL SEVERAL TIMES AND CONFIRMED THAT YOU HAVE WORKING BRAKES.

Some of the things you will need:

- Motive Power Bleeder w/ universal adapter to fit Japanese cars
- 2-3' of 3/16" inner diameter clear PVC tube for bleeding brakes (from Home Depot/Lowes)
- Disposable bottle to hold old brake fluid for recycling
- Large syringe/turkey baster to suck brake fluid out of reservoir
- 1 L of DOT3/DOT4 brake fluid - you can flush more through if you want, but 1 L is adequate (I used ATE - Super Blue, which admittedly is overkill)
- 1 set of brake pads (I used Satisfied Pro Perform OEM material from TireRack $58 F+R)
- 21 mm socket w/ 1/2" drive for the lug nuts (if the gorilla who tightened the nuts used an air gun, 3/8" might shear off - trust me, I know)
- Socket wrench w/ 14 mm, 8 mm socket
- Crescent wrench 8 mm, 14 mm, 17 mm
- Micrometer/calipers to measure disc rotor thickness
- Brake cleaner
- Torque wrench, breaker bar, floor jack, jack stand, nitrile gloves etc.

BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE. WRITE A NOTE TO YOURSELF TO PUMP THE BRAKE PEDAL BEFORE PUTTING THE CAR IN GEAR. STICK THE NOTE ON THE STEERING WHEEL SO NOBODY INADVERTENTLY TRIES TO DRIVE OFF WITH NO BRAKES.

1) The general recommendation is to flush the brake fluid starting at the wheel furthest from the master cylinder/reservoir, then move closer and closer i.e. passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front.

2) So starting at the passenger rear remove the wheel and tire. They are 21 mm lugs. If you're planning to do a tire rotation, mark the wheel so you know where it will be going. This is what you should see. To remove the caliper unscrew the 2 bolts at the top and bottom using a 14 mm socket (or ratchet) as shown. There is a 14 mm nut outboard of the bolt that you will have to hold stationary using a crescent wrench. Make sure the car is well supported with a jack and jack stands and the wheels chocked. It can take a bit of muscle to break the bolts loose.

3) Here is a closer view of the back of the caliper showing the ratchet and crescent wrench on the top bolt securing the caliper. You can also see the bottom bolt. The brake bleeder nipple sticks out on the top left of the caliper block. It is covered with a rubber cap. If you look carefully in the hole you can see part of the brake pads. If you look even more carefully to the left you can see a bag of Kingsford charcoal. I like BBQ ribs cooked low and slow for about 6 hours in a Weber Bullet, but that's another forum.

4) After the 2 bolts are removed the caliper can be slid off the disc by pulling it rearwards. It's a single piston floating design (cheap to manufacture) where the single piston just pushes the pads which slide in the groove to squeeze against the disc. You can see the old pads on either side of the disc. The rear pads had 4 mm left, but I changed them out anyway. You can see the single piston in the close up. A box or a wire hanger can be used so the weight of the caliper isn't pulling on the brake hose. You need to push the piston back in so it is flush with the caliper. Use a C clamp for this. When you are doing this with the pressure bleeder in place, make sure there is no pressure and the pump is unscrewed so you are not pushing against the pressure. Some people find it easier to retract the piston if they unscrew the 8 mm bleed nipple and let some fluid out. Don't splash brake fluid around, it will wreck the car's paint. Drain it into a bottle using the 3/16" PVC tubing. Keep in mind that if you open the bleeder valve and the brake system is not pressurized, you might introduce air into the system and you should bleed the brakes to get any air out.

5) Clean the rotors with brake cleaner. Clean debris off the parts with compressed air or a rag. Obviously do not use any solvent or cleaner except for brake cleaner. Do not put anything on the surface of the disc or the pads which might make them slippery.

Measure the brake disc thickness. Minimum thickness for the rear disc is 10.5 mm. Check the discs and pads for problems e.g. cracking, scoring, grooves, uneven wear etc.. Check both the inboard and outboard sides of the discs. If you suspect there are problems with the rotors they may have to be replaced or turned in a lathe. That is beyond the scope of this DIY guide. In that case you should take the car to a qualified mechanic to diagnose and repair.

The old pads (left) and the new pads (right). The new pads have an anti-vibration shim, just like the old pads. The new pads come with a tube of moly grease to be applied on the back of the pad between the pad and the shim. The old pads slide right out and the new pads slide right in. It's pretty easy. Be aware that the inboard pad has a metal tab (left old pad in the photo), so make sure you get the orientation correct. Now just slide the caliper back into place (you did push the piston back right?) and reattach the bolts. You're done with the brake pads. Next, time to bleed the brake line.

6) Brake bleeding time. If the brake fluid is over 2 years old it might be time to flush all the old fluid out and replace it with fresh fluid. If the fluid is still good, it may be OK just to bleed a little fluid out at each brake just to purge any air bubbles in the system. Bubbles form because of either leaks in the system, opening a valve when the system is not under pressure, letting the reservoir run dry, or the fluid boils because the pads become overheated e.g. from riding the brakes going down a long hill. If you are absolutely sure the brake lines are free of air and are fine, you can skip the bleeding. Or just take it to a mechanic to do if you don't want to deal with the mess.

Pop the rubber cap off the bleeder nipple. Use a 8 mm crescent wrench to see if it can be opened, don't open it yet, just check if it's seized. If it won't budge use an 8 mm socket to loosen it. If you use the wrench you can strip the nut. Attach a length of 3/16" clear PVC hose to the nipple and put the other end in a disposable bottle. I like to tape the hose down so it doesn't come out of the bottle. I also put some water in the bottle so it has some weight and doesn't just tip over. Don't open the valve yet. You have to set up the Motive pressure bleeder next.

7) Set up the Motive pressure bleeder. It's very important to make sure the tank, hoses and fittings are clean and bone dry. After every use I clean it and rinse it out with denatured alcohol and let it dry completely before putting it away. Brake fluid is hygroscopic which means it absorbs water from the air. Any water in the brake fluid will lower its boiling point. Boiled brake fluid = no brakes = bad.

Toyota specs DOT 3 fluid. I use DOT 4 ATE Super Blue which is a racing fluid. DOT 3 and DOT 4 can be mixed without problems. It is overkill for a minivan (unless you are these guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y31xD...eature=related) but I use ATE Super Blue for my other cars so it's easier to just have 1 type of brake fluid. Plus it comes in blue and amber colors (ATE Type 200 = same fluid in amber) so it's easy to just see when all the old fluid is flushed out of the system. FYI, blue colored brake fluid is illegal to use in Florida (don't ask me why, it makes no sense). Brake fluid attacks paint, so be careful with it and clean up splashes ASAP.

Put in 1 L of fluid in the Motive tank. Hook up the Motive to the brake fluid reservoir using the universal adapter. The universal adapter uses pressure to seal the tank. It's not as good as the screw on fitting found on the German cars. It will leak a bit so put towels down and a plastic tray (Chinese takeout) under the tank to catch the fluid. If the tray gets full, just suck it out with a turkey baster/syringe. When you are not actively bleeding the system, release the pressure to minimize fluid loss from the tank. The reservoir design is such that you cannot suck out all the old fluid so you have to just push it all through. To bleed, pump the pressure up to about 10 psi and then go to the bleed nipple at the brake and open it up. You should see the clear OEM fluid drain through the hose into the bottle. Maybe even bits of debris or a bubble or two. When you see the fluid coming out turn to dark blue you know you have pushed out all the old fluid in the line. If you don't have a different color fluid, you will have to guesstimate. Shut off the bleed nipple when done and replace the cap. Go to the Motive and unscrew the pump to release the pressure to minimize fluid loss from leakage while you finish up that wheel. Make sure to check the reservoir always has brake fluid in it. If it runs dry you will be pumping air into the brake lines which means you will have to start all over again to purge the system of the air. You are now done with that brake so clean up and replace the wheel.

8) Now just repeat 3 more times going around the car. Driver rear, passenger front, driver front. The front brakes are mechanically similar to the rear brakes. Same single piston floating design. They are just a bit bigger. The photos below show the driver front brakes after the old pads have been removed. Measure the disc thickness with a micrometer/caliper. Minimum thickness is 26 mm for the front discs. Check the discs and pads for any unusual wear like cracks, scoring, grooves or unevenness. Check the inboard and outboard sides.

The bottom photos shows the old pads on the left and the new pads on the right. Just install the new pads as you did before. There are no wired brake wear indicators on any of the pads. Flush the brake lines out like before. When done close it all up.

9) Now that you have finished with the brakes and replaced all 4 wheels, time to disconnect the Motive. Make sure the pressure is released and detach the adapter. In all likelihood there will excess brake fluid in the reservoir. Suck all the excess out of the little overflow tank until the level in the main tank is at or below the "Max" line. If the opposite is true, then just add a little more brake fluid until the reservoir is between "Max" and "Min". You're now done flushing or bleeding the brake system.

10) YOU HAVE NO BRAKES YET! Before you do anything else. Put the car in "Park" and the parking brake on. Start the engine. Now pump the brake pedal several times until the pistons extend and engage the new pads. At first the pedal will go to the floor. Eventually it will feel normal. Now you can drive the car and remove the note you stuck on the steering wheel.

11) If you are really anal retentive or plan on racing your Sienna, go break in your new pads.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/faqs.php#Q4

Otherwise just drive on your new pads and know that the pads won't reach maximum braking potential until you've driven on them a bit.
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