Oil Cooler leak? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
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#1 Old 03-07-2013, 10:09 PM
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Oil Cooler leak?

http://www.siennachat.com/forum/62-s...-puncture.html

I just got an email from someone who thought it was the standard vvt-i LSC 90K oil line recall with failed engine - although the servcie was performed in 2010. He has normally taken his Sienna to the dealer for service through 107K miles. Then ........ all of a sudden, his Sienna runs out of oil.

He thought he did not have tow package ........ but the dealer told him it was a faulty oil cooler line ... know as defective so tough luck ... give us $5K for a new engine.. After telling him $5K ...... sorry it's $8,900.

How does a leak turn into a rupture?

I feel sorry for this guy but I only know about LSC 90K ....... who else can help or chime in here.

Bizzare ........... if this how Toyota plans to conduct future business ...... if so ........ next car will have lifetime powertrain warranty .. which means driving an extra 50 miles to easternshoretoyota.com vs bobtylertoyta.com

Last edited by Paul3637; 03-08-2013 at 08:00 AM. Reason: originally typed from cell phone
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#2 Old 03-07-2013, 10:40 PM
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What more can I add than what i said to esmurry?

The material used for these lines is not properly chemical resistant and is degrading. When the pressurized hot oil begins to seep thru, you are only a short duration from total meltdown. Pretty sucky....
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#3 Old 03-08-2013, 09:48 AM
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The VVT-i oil line, is it the one on the front of the right (rear) cylinder head? I'm getting ready to take ours in to get the LSC done.

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Steve

'08 Sienna LE FWD
'13 Tacoma PreRunner SR5 Double Cab Long Bed Texas Edition 4x2
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#4 Old 03-08-2013, 09:53 AM
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Okay, never mind, I figured it out - that is the one I'm thinking about, shown here:

http://www.siennachat.com/forum/atta...i-oil-line.jpg

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#5 Old 03-08-2013, 04:14 PM
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And tucked in behind the front catalytic converter and behind the AC compressor and alternator would be the accessory engine oil cooler that also has rubber lines.

Steve, There is an all-steel line available that is used on 2010 and beyond 2GR-FE engines. Why not bribe your service manager into putting in a non-rubber replacement? His labor is paid by Toyota, and you supply the part.
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#6 Old 03-08-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fibber2 View Post
And tucked in behind the front catalytic converter and behind the AC compressor and alternator would be the accessory engine oil cooler that also has rubber lines.

Steve, There is an all-steel line available that is used on 2010 and beyond 2GR-FE engines. Why not bribe your service manager into putting in a non-rubber replacement? His labor is paid by Toyota, and you supply the part.
That is a good idea, but, the 2010 model shows the same part, but the 2012 shows the rigid line. The 2008 p/n is 15707-31012, and the 2012 p/n is 15772-31030. I will ask about that. Mine doesn't have a towing package, so it doesn't have an oil cooler.

I'm generally not crazy about engines with external rubber lines carrying oil anyway, so the VVT-i lines really bug me.

Regards,
Steve

'08 Sienna LE FWD
'13 Tacoma PreRunner SR5 Double Cab Long Bed Texas Edition 4x2
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#7 Old 03-08-2013, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sharkinstx View Post
That is a good idea, but, the 2010 model shows the same part, but the 2012 shows the rigid line. The 2008 p/n is 15707-31012, and the 2012 p/n is 15772-31030. I will ask about that. Mine doesn't have a towing package, so it doesn't have an oil cooler.

I'm generally not crazy about engines with external rubber lines carrying oil anyway, so the VVT-i lines really bug me.
The all metal oil line for vvt-i was installed in all Toyota 2gr-fe's built after 04-08. Unless Seinna started building 09's before that date, all 09's should have the metal vvt-i oil line.

My gosh ........ I pity the poor people with just one more ticking time bomb oil line problem on Siennas with oil coolers ...... which begs the question ...... does the Highlander have the same flawed design with tow package ??????? If so, they should be warned ......... one of the advantages of joining TN BEFORE any problems arise !!
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#8 Old 03-08-2013, 10:27 PM
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I've done some reading on LSC90k, and they only get paid 0.7hrs for replacing the rubber hose, so I imagine there's more labor to install the rigid line, since the one banjo fitting is on the side of the head hidden from view when you're under the hood. The parts are cheap, though. I'll insist I want the rigid line, even if I have to pay. We plan on driving the Sienna for a long time. The hose is fairly oily, but it's been that way for a while. It's just gotta hold for ten more days.

Regards,
Steve

'08 Sienna LE FWD
'13 Tacoma PreRunner SR5 Double Cab Long Bed Texas Edition 4x2
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#9 Old 03-09-2013, 02:50 PM
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TSB on oil cooler hose

Everyone with a Sienna with the oil cooler through 2011 Model year beware ...... I posted this problem to the Highlander forum, and sure enough, moderator SweeneyP found the TSB that describes the problem on BOTH VEHICLES through model year 2011. On the 2012's they replaced the rubber oil cooler oil line with a metal one !!!!!!

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/12...ml#post4514873
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#10 Old 03-09-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul3637 View Post
On the 2012's they replaced the rubber oil cooler oil line with a metal one !!!!!!
I'm unsure about that one. The diagrams I've pulled up for the 2012 models show a line that looks like it still has a rubber portion. They may have just put a stronger line on it like they did the rear bank VVT-i hose on that recall. I contacted toyota and asked for the changes between the two parts. I probably won't get a solid answer, but its worth a shot.

Click Here for the Full List of Mods Done to My Highlander ---->>> 2008 FWD Highlander Limited
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#11 Old 03-09-2013, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sweeneyp View Post
I'm unsure about that one. The diagrams I've pulled up for the 2012 models show a line that looks like it still has a rubber portion. They may have just put a stronger line on it like they did the rear bank VVT-i hose on that recall. I contacted toyota and asked for the changes between the two parts. I probably won't get a solid answer, but its worth a shot.
I think you are correct. Look at all the loops the OEM one takes. It will work with rubber ........... so long as it is SPEC'D right.

This situation is really pathetic. Why can't Toyota spec out an oil line that endures great heat.

Well............ and speaking of designs by morons ........ why not just make the trailer tow package with an extra sized crankcase that takes 7 or 8 quarts to fill and require synthetic oil. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much cheaper and more reliable than this goofy set up.
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#12 Old 03-09-2013, 09:46 PM
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I posted some of these TSB's on the main page up top:

Library of 2nd Generation (2004-2010) Documentation
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#13 Old 03-09-2013, 10:01 PM
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This situation is really pathetic. Why can't Toyota spec out an oil line that endures great heat.
I looked up the hose, its an acrylic rubber based hose, they are oil resistant and meant for high temps. So its not like its completely the wrong type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul3637 View Post
Well............ and speaking of designs by morons ........ why not just make the trailer tow package with an extra sized crankcase that takes 7 or 8 quarts to fill and require synthetic oil. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much cheaper and more reliable than this goofy set up.
And I'm going to have to disagree here. First off doing it like that would have a larger capacity than almost every v8 out there. Our V6 already has a extremely large capacity for its size. The capacity is more to fight sludge as the early 2000 v6's had sludge issues. While having a larger capacity might help keep it cooler, it will only do so until all the oil in the pan is hot. Then it will see no benefits, and that is where a oil cooler comes in. I have on issue with a cooler, but on an external engine oil line, I would always want to see a solid metal line, or a rubber one with zero indication of failure...

Also 7-8 quarts would be painfully expensive on an oil change with synthetic.

Click Here for the Full List of Mods Done to My Highlander ---->>> 2008 FWD Highlander Limited
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#14 Old 03-10-2013, 01:07 PM
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And yet something very basic is wrong here that we've seen repeated failures.

1) Incompatible materials composition. Seems unlikely (especially twice...) given that we are not dealing with a totally new system. It's oil & known blow-by combustion gases.

2) Build specification. Not related to quality - as in an engineering specification problem that results in an underrated construction for the pressures, temperatures, etc.

3) Construction quality - as in a bad supplier. Either for chemical resistance or build consistency, the hose is riddled with defects.

4) Fatigue - movement / vibration that damages even a good product.

Items 1-4 should have been addressed in Toyota's internal reliability and stress-testing regiment.

5) Installation issue - maybe the act of pushing it on and siding it down over the two metal ends, it is getting kinked, crushed or otherwise damaged.

To me, the biggest disappointment is not that failures occur, because we all know S**t happens. It's how Toyota is handling the occurrences that appalls me.

New add after reading some of the other forum comments:

6) Fraud... As in the dealer claims to have changed out the defective line, but never actually did. He pockets the warranty money and you are left with a defective part. You would think that this will eventually come back to bite the dealership when the old line blows and a district investigator questions why/how this could have happened. Maybe nobody cares, and National hasn't caught on yet.

If #6 was actually the predominant cause of failure, then all concerns about new replacement rubber going bad is highly overblown, and we have nothing to worry about going forward. Just check and be sure that you have the "Yellow Stripe" and all will be well. Believe it? We need more data......

Last edited by Fibber2; 03-14-2013 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Item #6
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#15 Old 03-13-2013, 08:03 AM
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NHSTA Complaint # New all metal oil line

NHSTA #10502969 filed 3/11/13 on this issue that affects all 2007 Siennas (since all have trailer tow package) plus 2008-2011 model year vehicles with oil cooler/tow package:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/...8wd!1294064258

See sweeneyp's picture of the new all metal design on the 2012's at post #15.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/12...-cooler-2.html


**********************
Is this deja vu or what ??????? As if the LSC 90K oil line recall on pre 04-08 builds wasn't bad enough ....... this sure adds insult to injury. Looks like changing the oil cooler hoses should be added to the maintenance schedule. About $200 parts & labor.

And it's the same thing with the Lexus RX350:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-s...-pictures.html

Last edited by Paul3637; 03-13-2013 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Lexus failures
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