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16" rims on SE for comfort

11K views 58 replies 13 participants last post by  Snapptastic 
#1 · (Edited)
Thinking about changing to a 16" rim for ride comfort/less road noise.
spotted a cheap set on Craigslist.


Has anyone done this to their SE ? 17" to 16" rims.

using (stock tire size)

p215/55r17
668mm height

p205/65r16
672mm height


How much improvement in ride quality should I expect?




edit:
current tire,
Bridgstone Turanza el400-02
p215/55r17
668mm height
 
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#3 ·
All low profile (55 and below) tires have much stiffer walls than above 55 profile tires, so an extra 1/2" of wall combined with softer walls will noticeably change the ride.
 
#6 · (Edited)
The most direct path to a smoother ride as far as the tire is concerned, is increased sidewall compliance. This can come from making it taller as has already been pointed out, and in changing the speed rating of the tire. Lower speed ratings have softer tread and sidewall areas, thus increasing ride comfort. The aspect ratio per se is not a direct correlating factor. A side bonus is that such tires are found at the lower end of the cost spectrum. Just be forewarned that what helps to create a smooth ride also tends to hurt handling: if you have an SE, then presumably you care about this aspect as well?

Best,
Mark
 
#7 ·
I think aspect ratio does play a part in it to some extent.

Not so much going from 55 to 60, but if you went to something like 185/80 tires, I think you would have about the same sidewall height and very comfortable ride and almost unsafe handling. (Of course, you would need narrower wheels than they make to mount them, so it's just a hypothetical, but ...
 
#8 · (Edited)
Well, starting with the OE tires on the 2012 XLE I have (215/55-17,) the sidewall height is: 0.55*215 = 118mm. The OD of this tire is: 2*0.55*215mm+17in*25.4mm/in = 668mm = 26.3". If we conserve the OD but change the aspect ratio to 80, then we get a tire width of 148mm. I'm unaware of any manufactureer with such narrow/tall tires, except maybe for dragster front end "skinnies."

But you're right: steering response would be awful, but not due to the aspect ratio, but rather due to the reduced separation between the two planes of transverse forces created by the sidewalls, since the tire is narrower. That is, we reduce the tire's torsional stiffness about a vertical axis, increasing tire slip angle for a given turning acceleration, and reducing sharpness of steering response.

So again, aspect ratio is only an indirect contributor.

This means if we want a smooth ride and reasonable handling, we should opt for a tall sidewall and a wide tire. But wide tires are noisier...

Best,
Mark
 
#13 · (Edited)
So again, aspect ratio is only an indirect contributor.

This means if we want a smooth ride and reasonable handling, we should opt for a tall sidewall and a wide tire. But wide tires are noisier...

Best,
Mark
Don't forget that we are limited to overall OD around 680 mm (the OEM OD is 668 mm), so if you want to go with taller side walls, you need to reduce the size of the wheels and in that case the aspect ratio will play very influential part. If we keep the size of the wheels the same and will go with narrower tires that have higher side wall ratio to keep the Od the same, we still gonna ended up with side walls as tall as on OEM tires and wont improve ride comfort even a bit and the speed rating wont improve comfort much if we keep the aspect ratio the same or would go with just a bit taller ratio.
There are only two ways here: replace the OEM spring and shock with LE parts or go with smaller wheels/taller side walls and lower speed rating tires.
225/60/16 tires (the biggest tires that would fit IMO) have 135 mm side walls vs the OEM 215/55/17 that have 118 mm tall side walls and 17 mm difference combined with softer walls of the H or T rated tires should noticeably improve the ride.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Hi Tigerheli,

Yes - 175,185,195 mm tire widths were very common in the 60's-80's, and while an 80 aspect ratio was somewhat uncommon even then (75 was much more common,) they did exist. So, a 185/80 would have a sidewall height of 0.80*185 mm = 148mm (= 5.83".) (I'm not counting the typical deactivation of about 3/4" of sidewall height due to the rim lip radial projection.) By any standard, that's one tall sidewall, and would tend to give a smooth ride.

But handling was unimportant back in those days. A typical driver of that period, if magically dropped into a 7th-gen Camry SE of today, would probably think:
1. This car handles better than a race car!
2. This car rides like a Mack truck!

Best,
Mark
 
#11 ·
Im just going to throw my fart to the wind..


!st off, if its an SE doesnt it have stiffer springs then the typical mom and pop camry? This will effect ride smoothness as well as tire choice.

But mostly, alot has to do with the road surface. I mean, I have 19" wheels and tires on mine and when im on freshly paved asphalt, the ride is smooth as a babies ass.


No tire is going to compensate for crappy road conditions. But deflate your tires 2-3psi and see if that helps.


Noise is another complaint that I lol at. Road conditions are 70% of complaints and the other 30% is the tires. Since we cant help road conditions, Lets take a look at tires.


If you look at a Michelin Touring tire, theres not much space between the tread blocks. This will be a quieter tire over one like the OEM which has alot of space between the blocks.

This is why you can hear a 4x4 truck coming from a 1/4 mile away. More space between blocks, the noisier the tire.

So swapping to a 16" wheel isnt going to do anything.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I have 19" wheels and tires on mine and when im on freshly paved asphalt, the ride is smooth as a babies ass.- wow really who woulda thunk it?

I can guarantee the michilin tires my 16 inch rims came with on my LE with will ride smoother then anything with a shorter side wall period. The sidewall is going to make the biggest difference.
A taller sidewall will still ride smoother on bumpy roads and take pot holes better then any rubberband tire.

I see people all the time slowing down SUPER slow for pot holes and such and when i look they always have super low profile tires.

I could say a lot more about what you wrote but i might get myself banned.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Back to the OP and the question about downsizing to 16" rims:

I would first call the Tire Rack and explain your objective. Give them the stat's on your current tires, including speed rating, and explain that you want a much smoother/quieter ride and are willing to give up handling performance to get it. (There's no free lunch here.)

If he says he can't do that in a 55-series tire, then and only then would I consider downsizing the rims, because if you do that, then you have the cost of rims and tires to consider, rather than tires alone if you stay with 17". Do hope this helps...

On edit: not ignoring your input, Esoteric, but evidently our posts were published at about the same time. Yes, suspension has a lot to do with NVH, but the OP was restricting his options to tires. And besides, if he wanted to consider the suspension too, most of the aftermarket offerings go in the direction of stiffer instead of softer, unfortunately. Unknown to me: could XLE or LE strut/springs be swapped into an SE?

Best,
Mark
 
#15 · (Edited)
David, please re-read my posts carefully. I think we're saying the same thing, but you're reading aspect ratio as a proxy for sidewall height. Thay are related, but the direct factor is sidewall height and the indirect, dependent factor is aspect ratio. Remember that aspect ratio is also a function of tire width. But whether we consider an increase in sidewall height as a direct factor, or as an indirect consequence of increased aspect ratio with conserved tire width, rim diameter would need to be reduced if we conserve tire OD. That's where changing the speed rating of the tire can be a useful knob to turn in this problem if we don't want to get different rims (will 16" rims clear the brakes on a 7th-gen SE?)

Case in point about aspect ratio is exactly my example of a taller, wider tire: here, the aspect ratio could be conserved, but ride comfort could change considerably.

Best,
Mark
 
#16 ·
ok, agreed. :)
the LE/XLE/SE and even SE V6 all have the same size rotors and brake calipers, so fitment is not an issue.
 
#23 ·
As mentioned previously ...

For springs/shocks - it is pretty easy to find performance/handling springs. It is pretty hard to find aftermarket comfort/cushy springs, so you are looking at new or used OEM LE springs - and they are harder to replace than rims/tires.

For tires vs. wheels - unless you are buying a full set of tires/wheels on E-bay/CL, it makes sense to buy them when the existing tires need replacement. 16-inch tires are usually slightly cheaper than 17's, but only maybe $20 per tire. OTOH - 16-inch rims are going to be minimum $80 each and you have the added expensive of transferring over the TPMS sensors - so it is about $400-$800 additional to change the rims if a tire swap would do what the OP wanted.
 
#25 ·
^^^^ good points about the costs for wheels...and then this...the tires on a rim/tire combo will likely be OEM stock size/quality that don't have the qualities desired/discussed in this thread....
or for around $450-500 he can get a set of the OEM shocks/struts on some local j-yard and install them for another $300 or so.
 
#24 ·
^^^^ good points about the costs for wheels...and then this...the tires on a rim/tire combo will likely be OEM stock size/quality that don't have the qualities desired/discussed in this thread....
 
#33 ·
^^^^ good points about the costs for wheels [and TPMS]...and then this...the tires on a [used] rim/tire combo will likely be OEM stock size/quality that don't have the qualities desired/discussed in this thread....
Just thought it bears repeating that quality of tires' ride/performance varies so much that THAT variable ALONE may have the most immediate impact on your decision.
 
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#28 · (Edited)
NVH (noise, vibration, harshness,) perception is a notoriously subjective thing. Even if we could share quantitative data, most non-engineering types probably couldn't even relate. So when the OP asked about how much ride quality would improve by reducing rim diameter from 17" to 16", I had to smile. That's like asking, "If I use A1 steak sauce instead of Worcestershire sauce on my hamburger, how much would taste improve?" 7.2 tasteggins, of course. (Just kidding.)

Anyway - I don't know if the struts in the XLE and the LE are the same, but my 7th-gen XLE has surprisingly less divergent valving built in to the shock section than I would have ever guessed the OE would have used for the alleged "luxury" variant of the Camry. The ride is still on the stiff side with lots of road roughness transmitted to the cabin. In all fairness, however, I'm running 18" rims and stiff-riding Michelin 235/45-18 Pilot Super Sports, which aren't exactly used for boulevard cruising. But even when the car had the OE Bridgestone Turanza tires, the car was rather stiff-riding and very much like my 6th-gen SE Camry.

Bottom line is that I don't know how much difference swapping the struts will make, although it seems a safe bet that it will help. So will changing the tires, but the element of risk for the OP cannot be anything less than large. He'll have to try it and see.

Best,
Mark
 
#32 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the input.
I think a few of you did not read the part of "using stock tire size"

I went back and add to the original post.
(currently with 15k on stock Turanza and yes I have read the complaints about them)

Has anyone done this to their SE ? 17" to 16" rims.

using (stock tire size)

p215/55r17
668mm height

p205/65r16
672mm height

I already asked Molson for tips on seeking comfort using 17" rims.
bigger tire OD, softer sidewall, etc.
link here, thx again Dave.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/310-7th-generation-2012/928521-215-60-17-tires-ride-comfort.html


Yes, I do like a sporty ride and drive in the mountains from time to time. But the daily commute is getting a bit annoying sometimes.

I DO wish the SE suspension is a bit softer, but I am also looking into less noise and vibration with the 16" tires with taller sidewalls. But I haven't came cross anyone on here that switched to 16" rims/tires, not snow just standard tires.

Basically, I saw a really cheap set of 2014 LE tires/wheel (Yew! steelies and hubcaps) :wink:

So I was wondering how much improvment in NVH. As someone mentioned, there will be performance lost. (how much?) And what I really want to know how much more "comfort" will I get with that 16" wheel/tire set.

And YES I know it's subjective. :wink:


And YES I am also aware of the LE shock/spring swap option.
And YES I am also aware of using sound insulation in the front doors.

What I didn't know is that swapping the TPMS would be THAT expensive.
No way to turn that damn TPMS off?
need to do some research on this..


NVH (noise, vibration, harshness,) perception is a notoriously subjective thing. Even if we could share quantitative data, most non-engineering types probably couldn't even relate. So when the OP asked about how much ride quality would improve by reducing rim diameter from 17" to 16", I had to smile. That's like asking, "If I use A1 steak sauce instead of Worcestershire sauce on my hamburger, how much would taste improve?" 7.2 tasteggins, of course. (Just kidding.)

Come on, that's some exaggeration there.:wink:
BTW, I am an engineering dropout, so I know some stuff...:grin:
 
#30 ·
My Avalon has 18" rims with 225/45R18 tires and I went with 16" rims for my winter tires. The rider was a lot more comfortable and compliant. Did not notice any difference in handling (nor should you drive a camry that hard to notice LOL)
 
#35 ·
Yeah, THAT is the "rub"...you can if you're inclined to, look for someone with the similar Camry that has the tires you'd like to buy...

If it's a mainline tire, maybe it's on a new/used showroom camry at a dealer you can test drive.
or...perhaps start a thread asking for a camry owner in your area who may have that tire...
or...some brands have a 30/45 day return policy...(Cooper's is 45)...

I feel for ya...the Gen5 LE is so soft, and with a lot of lean on those 15" rims shod with cheap tires it came with, that going to 17s and higher quality tread couldn't help but improve the ride...by which I mean stability/response that firmed up it's rock and roll between gears and around corners...the goal opposite of yours...:frown:
 
#37 · (Edited)
In thinking this through a bit further, changing the struts may be a better option than changing the tires for NVH, because:

1. Reducing vertical stiffness and dampening in the strut is likely to be less injurious to handling than doing effectively the same thing with the tire sidewall. Plus, if the car rolls too much in turns with such struts, sway bars can be adjusted to compensate with little negative impact on NVH.

2. Keeping the car's existing 17" wheels will help resale over a non-orthodox 16" rim conversion.

The big question seems to be how much XLE or LE struts would soften the ride compared to SE. Does anyone have actual data for spring rates as a starting point?

Thanks,
Mark
 
#45 · (Edited)
#46 · (Edited)
See, My SE window sticker said it had "sport" springs.

IDK toyotas parts sites what would list OEM struts and springs for the LE and the SE.

I figure if the sport springs were installed, they should probably have different struts with different valving. Im just speculating here.


Needs someone with toyota parts site knowledge to see if the part numbers are different.



EDIT: I did find this.. But its classifying it on year and not sub model.. So that doesnt answer much

http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/parts-list/2013-toyota-camry-nap/front-spring-shock-absorber.html
 
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