Ok, maybe I'm confused

Title says drain and fill

But level check.. you mean by a dipstick?

 

I'm sorry I should note my car doesn't have a dipstick to check atf fluid.

 

I thought about doing the ATF fluid level check while the car is on the ground. However, measured the fluid and replaced it with the exact same amount. You may have hard time with an access to the fluid drain bolt given the ground clearance.

 

Problem is there is no dip stick. To check - set the transmission oil level requires the car be level, engine running, then removing and replacing the drain plug. Might be a bit tight under there without much room to avoid hot exhaust pipe, let alone do anything else. Don't know about you thin younger guys, but I found with a creeper the front wheels have to be a good couple inches off the ground to do a engine oil change without being too friendly with the bottom of the car. Best to find some way to get some clearance under the car, like at least drive into some pieces of 2x4.

 

I could reach the drain plug with the car on the ground. I'd like to know the overflow fluid level check when the car on the level ground would give a correct reading. Thank you

 

As long as the car is level +- 1 degree and the transmission at the proper temperature it would not matter if the car is on the ground. Try reaching the drain plug through the left wheel well with the wheel turned or removed.
The transmission must be at the proper temperature for a valid level check.

 

Thank you, I've been searching on how to check atf and the part + - 1 degree is my trouble. So if my driveway is level (look level) then my car's transmission would be + - 1 degree. Is it correct?

 

Glad to hear you are doing an ATF change especially since this U760E tranny throws out so much debris , especially if it has "The Shudder"... (note: I don't think that your does have it, just background info.) The shudder has been rearing it's ugly head since this tranny went into use in 2007, LOL... but ... not funny.
"The Shudder" a fix from 2012--> https://www.dropbox.com/s/njysshzrbfevlbw/2012 Camry Shudder TSB0086-12.pdf?dl=0

"The Shudder" a fix from 2013--https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7h641kbs034jnu/Torque%20Converter%20Shudder%20TSB.pdf?dl=0 A year later and now their "shudder fix" doesn't want to change the fluid for you, LOL. Cheapskates at Toyota.


Funny this is that they originally (a 2012 solution) did THREE drain and fills to try to deal with "The Shudder" and now they just do a software update and wait til you comeback with the car shaking to pieces and then they finally replace the torque converter. Ironic. But again.... just background information.. LOL Enough about the Shudder.


To your point about changing it and leveling it. Get ready for a little (lotta) hassle buddy. And yes the level surface is important. but you can check the levelness of the car by the tranny pan itself as the bottom of the pan matches with the overflow tube inside it. Here's a cutaway image proving that you can use the bottom of the pan to check level gradient of the car.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2kd9m2vc7363cjq/U760E Level by Pan Bottom.JPG?dl=0

Here's the Drain and Fill procedure....
LINK ----> https://www.dropbox.com/s/60imu89ri78sft8/ATF DRAIN & FILL & LEVELING - CAMRY U760E.pdf?dl=0 Print it, learn it hate it and yet love it. This is your new reality.

And here's a video link to JUST the fluid leveling procedure, if done by the book. (note that this video shows a vacuum gauge tool for leveling the transmission because the dealers were checking the level hot at 190F and not 130F which is what the plastic "overflow tube" was designed for and built into the transmission. Dealers were therefore sending out cars, after the repair fo the transmission with an UNDERFILLED transmission, LOL!!! So here's 34 MINUTES of how to level the fluid full by the book.

And if you want to be somewhat geeky and know the effectiveness of each drain and fill, I worked with some university kids to come up with this spreadsheet.
LINK----> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cx8qu99qpkdr0u/Partial Drain Helper.xlsx?dl=0

And if you'd like to know some really geeky stuff about it, like..... its Partition Coeffecient... here's the WS Chem sheet...
LINK ---> https://www.dropbox.com/s/669gn2lryblrqqp/ATF WS MSDS1.pdf?dl=0


So yep, that's it.... much better than a dipstick hey!? Two plug gaskets, two torque specs, a fill plug a drain plug a plastic overflow tube, a jumper wire, a computer running Toyota Techstream Software (potentially), ..... instead of a freaking dipstick. Welcome to the U760E, a fine machine.

Me.. I'm gonna shorten it by simply having the car up overnight in the garage at the ambient temperature of probably 60F and the new fluid out there at the same 60F , then drain and refill "blindly" without doing the jumper wires across the OBD port and the Computer software temperature reading and blah blah blah.

My Corolla though?.... one plug, one dipstick... done 10minutes.

 

Me.. I'm gonna shorten it by simply having the car up overnight in the garage at the ambient temperature of probably 60F and the new fluid out there at the same 60F , then drain and refill "blindly" without doing the jumper wires across the OBD port and the Computer software temperature reading and blah blah blah.

This is how I would do it. Fusing with the hot refill method and leveling is for under the gun service techs. The only question I have is at one point I thought you could just pump it leaving the plug out but the straw in until it runs out the straw... any reason why that wouldn't work? Obviously measuring is the correct way to do it (how I would do it anyway) and the amount you lose dropping the pan shouldn't matter, but I was kind of wondering about that idea. I'm also tired and probably overlooking whatever reason would make that idea not work.

As for fluid I know on some other WS vehicles I've seen people using various Valvoline products, not sure what exactly, maybe MaxLife. I'd do some research and see what others have said about non Toyota/Aisin fluid for this specific transmission. I've had A/Ts where fluid brand/line does not matter (my Corollas come to mind) while the A540H in my AllTrac only takes Type T-IV at the exact correct level though that is likely due to it being ancient in terms of years/miles. I've very rarely heard a bad word about any Valvoline ATF (believe it's what my rebuilt A245E got filled with before and after rebuilding, need to recheck the receipt) but then the one time I used in the aforementioned A540H the car drove like garbage and the torque converter didn't unlock half the time so researching what people use in that specific model of A/T is best.

 

Wow thank you for all the info. What atf would you use? I found the Toyota atf ws and Aisin atf ws got the cSt @ 100 of 7.2 and cSt @ 40 of 34.88 most of other WS suitable fluid are lower cSt @ temps including Mobil atf 3324.

 

Thanks for the appreciation. That information took me about a year and a half to gather, get the TRUTH on and compile while sorting out all the little things that changed behind the scenes with their methods and directions. It was a real "moving target" for a while to get the truth on the procedure. Sad thing is , I called 10 national dealers randomly and ONE knew about the latest fill level directions and vacuum tool for setting levels at high fluid temps. eesh.

I use Toyota just because, literally just because.

 

My plan is to drain/refill in the morning when the atf is cold. Add 6-8oz more than the amount drained, start the car shift through all the gears then remove the drain plug and start measuring the overflowed fluid temps until I get the required fluid temps then install the drain plug. Do you think it would give good reading? thank you for your input.

 

It sounds reasonable. With your original ATF fluid in your transmission, I would do the fluid check (per your description) to see how much ATF comes or trickles out of the overflow. Then I would do what you are proposing. I was going to do this method but it seems like more work than necessary.

 

For what I understand is the fluid level in the pan is above the overflow tube when the car running the fluid level will be lower or almost even with the overflow (with fluid level was correctly filled before) then as the car is warming up the fluid volume increases a and it would start overflowing when fluid temp is above 113 degree F. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

 

For what I understand is the fluid level in the pan is above the overflow tube when the car running the fluid level will be lower or almost even with the overflow (with fluid level was correctly filled before) then as the car is warming up the fluid volume increases a and it would start overflowing when fluid temp is above 113 Celsius. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

That's an interesting observation. And you do indeed understand the core of the overflow tube premise. Just to be thorough, your temp should be in degrees F, the 113Celsius is way over temp. specs., no big deal, just wanted to mention it quickly.


Kinda changing lanes...
Not that it's in any way essential to the procedure but...
I do not know from my experience 100% if the fluid level with motor OFF and fluid cold is over the fill tube or not. Although I am about 90% sure that it is below the fill tube when cool and shut off.


I do know this... somebody who does the overflow fill tube method by pumping in extra fluid into a cold system with the car running will very likely over fill the system.


So once again, were back to the old dilemma that if you start to use Toyota's methods (ie. overflow tube) to do drain and fills. You really are in for a penny in for a pound and should do the whole works through the steps.


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news fellas as I answer some of these questions. I totally identify with your ideas as you wrestle with reverse engineering a way around these foolish steps Toyota has created. After all, we just want to take care of our $20k investment in our cars and its so sad that they didn't even put in a dipstick. LOL

Oh and I forgot, as an additional answer to all of the above posts in which a person is opening to the overflow tube..... once you involve this in the leveling process you also open the can of worms of "+/- 1 degree inclination of level". Not a biggie but did want to mention it as several ideas for shortcuts proposed using the overflow tube and a few extra ounces or drizzling it out.

 

+- 1 Degree transmission level spec.

Just for an insight into what 1 degree tilt is for a 2012 Camery. If the car is on a 1 degree up slope, the front wheels will be 1.9" higher than the rear. One degree sideways, is one tire just a hair over 1" higher than the other. Basically the 1 degree spec. is saying, don't run it up on ramps to do the transmission level check - set procedure. For optimal results, level within 1/2" front to back and 1/4" sideways should be more than close enough.

For temperature, I would not trust anything other than the internal temperature reading as presented by the shift lever dance procedure or a reader connected to OBD II.

 

Thank you for correcting the temp(113 degree F) and all other inputs. A prayer for those that lost their life in Oregan.

 

I did the drain/refill. With the engine cool off (3-4 hours) I got the fill plug loosened first then I got the drain plug removed about 1 quart of fluid drained out then i removed the overflow tube another quart came out. I think the overflow tube could be removed with using the 6mm hex by hand. I refilled it with the same amount of fluid this time. The car drove normal so far. Next week I will do it with starting the car first then remove the drain plug to see if any fluid comes out (hope it's not). I bought 2 gallon of fluid so with only 2 quarts/drain I need to do 3 more to use up the 2 gallon of fluid. By the way I used maxlife atf just to see if it works and I think my transmission accepting it fine. Thanks in advance for your input.

 

I did the drain/refill. I refilled it with the same amount of fluid this time. The car drove normal so far. Next week I will do it with starting the car first then remove the drain plug to see if any fluid comes out (hope it's not). I bought 2 gallon of fluid so with only 2 quarts/drain I need to do 3 more to use up the 2 gallon of fluid. By the way I used maxlife atf just to see if it works and I think my transmission accepting it fine. Thanks in advance for your input.

Be careful the overflow tube lists 7 INCH POUNDS , yes inch lbs as its torque. That must be only a light finger tight , not hand tight even.

 

Jeeezzz..

I had no idea changing trans fluid took this much info.

Since I didnt know in my 1st post that it didnt have the normal distick, filler cap and drain, I feel like an idiot now.


So my question is:

If i were to bring it to the dealer to change fluids, would they do the proper 3X drain and fill like it calls for? Or will they just do it once and send you on you way with contaminated ATF.

 

My dealer does not do drains and fills anymore, I'd imagine most are that way. They do a flush, which for a new transmission shouldn't present any risks of blowing out or damaging seals like something older. This is across the board for them new and old, which is exactly why I balked when I inquired about them doing a drain and pan drop on my 91 to fix a leaky seal no one could fix, and they wanted to flush it which would have probably ended in disaster on 91 with 225k+ on it.

 

Since the Toyota fluid is not required to be replaced after 100k miles the drain/refill will give your transmission 30% new fluid or if you do it 2x that would be 50% new fluid your tranny will be happy then every year or 15k after that give it another drain/refill 30% freshen atf that is great I think. And if your dealer would not do it just ask for the manager and make him do it lol.

 

Thanks for the warning. That's what i did with the overflow tube (finger tight not even hardly tighten).
I notice that my car was not down shift to 4th gear when it went up the hill or maybe last night and this morning the wind was blowing my direction ( I always use cruise control on the freeway 70-75 mph and when my car is going up those hill it most likely down shift to 4th gear I always cancel the CC so the car doesn't down shift going up those hill ). What do you think? Should I be aware of something ?

 

I did the drain/refill again but this time I used the atf cooling line to get the fluid out by starting the car and pumped out about 2qts stop the car then just put back the same amount for 3 times. I'm taking your advices by not checking the fluid level and called it done0. Have a good one and thank you for all your advices.

 

Could anyone confirm that drain plug and overfill tube are 6 mm hex (torque 36 ft.lbs) and inspection/fill plug is 24 mm socket (torque 36 ft.lbs)? I'm planning to start drain-refill on someone's car and need to get a socket for a refill plug.

 

The fill hole is 24mm nut. Drain plug and inspection tube require 6 mm hex. I did not use torque wrench and change the aluminum gaskets. I will torque and use new gaskets at 50K change. You will need 10mm socket to remove the wheel well housing and access the fill hole.

 

That is right for the sizes ( 15/16 work too ). You should try the 6mm hex bit by hand to remove the overflow tube ( it's plastic ). About the torque spec I saw some post said 30 f/p. If you are gonna check the fuild level I suggest that you do it first then drain and refill the same amount so you don't have to remove the drain plug again.

 

I would also be intrigued if they decide to send it off for a fluid analysis with Blackstone labs, which would tell you what's in it, and by extension how the system is wearing. Also would probably give some background as to fluid condition at 40k, and if that is too far to go on the fluid. It'd give you far more feed back than color and a bit more than smell.

 

Over on bitog (Bob Is The Oil Guy) forums.... Blackstone tests of WS fluid show that its additive package lasts about 30k and then it is "just fluid" providing physical usefulness rather than cleaning/other chemical properties. I was amazed buy I called them and sure enough they said it right there on the phone. Later analysis and posting show WS and "nothing special" as far as atf goes and confirms that "lifetime" fluid is just a way to save on cost of ownership calculations on the part of manufacturers.

BITOG is an amazing forum. Actual engineers, chemists post there regularly on the "truth" about auto fluids.

 

I'll post this over in the Corolla forum also but have a look at how a drop of atf with 15k miles looks next to a fresh drop. Yep, i did a drain and fill at 15k and there is the grey dot of wear materials.

 

I called Blackstone directly. Di-rect-ly. To confirm the analysis I saw on bitog over a year ago. That combined with virgin data has led me to inderstand it is no magical potion and indeed is run of the mill in the first place.

Now as far as me changing it. I just posted that I DID change it in my Corolla just two days ago at 15k. My Camry just hit 36k and will.... When i swallow the bitter pill of the no dipstick BS... Get its several drain and fill.

So thats that.

 

I called Blackstone directly. Di-rect-ly. To confirm the analysis I saw on bitog over a year ago. That combined with virgin data has led me to inderstand it is no magical potion and indeed is run of the mill in the first place.
Now as far as me changing it. I just posted that I DID change it in my Corolla just two days ago at 15k. My Camry just hit 36k and will.... When i swallow the bitter pill of the no dipstick BS... Get its several drain and fill.
So thats that.

See post #20 from http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tu...t/forums/tundra-general-discussion/112638-used-transmission-fluid-analysis.html

This guy with a Tundra truck had over 63K miles and heavy towing. The WS fluid analysis showed his fluid was okay at that mileage even with towing. I not sure not sure where you are getting WS is only good for 30K. BTW you are 6000 miles over due.

 

I'm not going to have a pissing contest with you. I know what I know. I talked to the experts I talked to. I know that previous atf generations had far more frequent and reasonable change schedules. And i know that WS fluid is nothing scientifically more advanced than the previous IV version of the atf. They havent added anything magical. They have just stretched out the interval on paper.

 

And by the way, if you read the post you point to as the source of gospel on how long WS fluid can go... You will see that he was running 12 freaking quarts in that transmission. Not the 6 or so we have. AND he was already having rough shifts. I don't call that a success story for the durability od WS fluid.