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Want to get tranny fluid exchanged -- advice

4K views 34 replies 12 participants last post by  01lexpl 
#1 ·
2013 Camry is at 60K and no problems with tranny so far, but I don't buy Toyota's "lifetime fill" and want to get the ATF exchanged at some point in the near future. Looking for the best way to go about this -- I am wary of dealerships not doing it correctly or not doing it at all, and it seems independent shops are not equipped for this very involved job. (I've watched a lengthy video on YouTube about how it's done, read about this extensively, etc.)

Anything I can do to safeguard against dealers messing up the job? Any advice is appreciated, thanks.
 
#2 ·
Everything I can do myself, I do. I have trouble trusting anyone with my car as well, even Toyota's "factory trained technicians." Though I would prefer having this job done at the dealership, which I did at 30K. I would think they do it far more often than your typical independent shop would. I developed a good rapport with the service manager, and conveyed my concerns. I appreciated his honesty when he agreed with me that there are good techs who do the job right, and there are bad techs who just get it done as fast as possible to make more money. He told me that I could deal directly with him, and he would see my car is serviced by one of 3 or 4 techs he trusts the most. Perhaps you could try that route.
 
#4 ·
It's my understanding that a flush isn't the way to go, just a drain and refill, so I'm not particularly worried about getting every last drop of the old ATF out. My main concern is not filling it to the correct level, but I suppose it's better to try to change and risk this it than leave it alone the entire life of the car (which I expect to be at least 200K with the amount of driving I do).
 
#8 ·
Huh?
Andy Mohr Toyota in Indy quoted me $300 for a drain-and-fill. That after she said I was wasting my money. Lifetime and all that plus only gets 4 quarts.
Ummm she shut up when I asked how many quarts they re-fill on the torque converter warranty.

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#9 ·
https://www.bgprod.com/services/transmission/

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/transmission/bg-low-viscosity-full-synthetic-atf/

http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/results_details.php?id=22539

Job isn't involved. Time simply costs money that many don't want to pay.

Find a local BG shop that can do a machine flush using WS or equivalent ATF. Make sure you question them on checking the fluid level without a dipstick. Its simple enough and the youtube video is simply there to scare people toward the stealership.

http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php

Filter is optional. It has one but doesn't catch much. If you want filtration, install an inline filter.

http://shop.perma-cool.com/10678-Transmission-Filter-System-Standard-10678.htm
http://magnefinefilters.com/Magnefine-3-8-Magnetic-Inline-Transmission-Filter-R038M.htm
http://www.emergingent.com/magnefine/installation_page.htm
http://racorstore.com/racor-lfs-22825-transmission-filter-kit.html
 
#13 ·
https://www.bgprod.com/services/transmission/

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/transmission/bg-low-viscosity-full-synthetic-atf/

http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/results_details.php?id=22539

Job isn't involved. Time simply costs money that many don't want to pay.

Find a local BG shop that can do a machine flush using WS or equivalent ATF. Make sure you question them on checking the fluid level without a dipstick. Its simple enough and the youtube video is simply there to scare people toward the stealership.

http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php

Filter is optional. It has one but doesn't catch much. If you want filtration, install an inline filter.

http://shop.perma-cool.com/10678-Transmission-Filter-System-Standard-10678.htm
http://magnefinefilters.com/Magnefine-3-8-Magnetic-Inline-Transmission-Filter-R038M.htm
http://www.emergingent.com/magnefine/installation_page.htm
http://racorstore.com/racor-lfs-22825-transmission-filter-kit.html
I'm not sure what BG is -- are they a line of products? Special technicians at various dealerships? When I put in my ZIP, I get results from a few different dealership service departments near me.
 
#10 ·
How would you EVER be sure they used WS and not some "it's the same" or "that's BS?" How much WS would it take to flush their machine of say Dexron or Mercon? And residuals.
Too iffy for me.

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#12 ·
How hard is it to get off your butt and watch them do the service?
I don't use OE Toyota WS. I myself prefer any of the full synthetic LV multi-spec fluids. Most indie shops will have a compatible fluid and you can simply ask for a datasheet. If the shop can't give you the brand/type/pn of the ATF or the datasheet, then go elsewhere. A good shop keeps no secrets from the consumer.

Residuals are a non issue. Most shops will be using one of the multi-fluids so its not like the tank has 20 different ATFs in it. Plus, a good tech will clean the cooler line flush machine before or after each use.

Blindly trusting the dealer or automaker is foolish.
 
#14 ·
I am STILL missing just how this system ensure proper tranny fluid level when done.
Not being contrary, but fluid type and levels SURE gives Toyota an out on the 115,000 warranty extension on the TC. (NOT that that wouldn't be a battle to enforce anyhow without a lawsuit.)

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#15 ·
The shop that does the flush will check the level. ANYONE CAN CHECK THEIR ATF LEVEL. All you need is a temp gauge or scan tool ATF temp PID to get a correct ATF level. If the shop doesn't have an OBD scanner capable of checking ATF temperatures, then don't go there. Its not rocket science and any moron can set a correct level.

BG is just one of many brands that shops/dealers join. They have pretty good ATF flush machine and warranty program and is common for a dealer to 'upsell' these profit making services. Probably a couple dozen companies trying to push their collection of machines/services/fluids to all the shops/dealers...

Not surprisingly, many dealers do not use OE fluids for maintenance. Many dealers just use bins/totes/barrels of locally blended/delivered oil/atf/coolant... No dealer wants a mountain of quart sized plastic bottles behind the shop.
 
#16 ·
Oh c'mon. That's not true. 0W20, WS, pink and red AF all come in 55 gal or 200L drums. That is not a valid argument. Whatever a dealer finds economical to stock is up to them. [emoji3]

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#18 ·
Simple Method?

Given the trans already has the correct fluid level:

Would it be foolish to assume if I drain the trans at ambient (vehicle cooled overnight) and measured the amount exactly; then replaced the same amount of the same brand and type fluid at ambient I would have the correct level back in. Seems pretty straight forward -- maybe??

Also, the video shows the guy with his sliding level tube to adjust for various temps of trans fluid. So what is the little red stand pipe that's already in the trans pan for? Would that happen to be the "cold" fill height indicator. If so, my above method would be Ok.

Wheatdog
 
#19 ·
Given the trans already has the correct fluid level:

Would it be foolish to assume if I drain the trans at ambient (vehicle cooled overnight) and measured the amount exactly; then replaced the same amount of the same brand and type fluid at ambient I would have the correct level back in. Seems pretty straight forward -- maybe??

Also, the video shows the guy with his sliding level tube to adjust for various temps of trans fluid. So what is the little red stand pipe that's already in the trans pan for? Would that happen to be the "cold" fill height indicator. If so, my above method would be Ok.

Wheatdog
Yes. If you're perfectly level.
There's some argument about some cling of the new fluid to your filler.
Can't see where a few cc's one way or the other makes a hoot. Look at the range we had on a dip stick.

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#20 ·
Don't assume trans has correct level. Most dipstickless Toyotas that I've serviced were a pint to quart low on fluid. Not sure if its possible for that much fluid to disappear from volatility, but since WS is the lowest bid swill, possibly a combination of the ATF cooking off and low factory fill not checked by dealer at prep since there is no dipstick.

The cold fill straw is calibrated for 104-113F. Since ATF fluid warms up quickly and moves past that temp, and is a long wait to cool back down below that temp, Toyota came out with the fancy procedure for full ATF temp level check, which is probably the youtube video many see, with the tech OSHA burn prevention vacuum pump, and the sliding measured tube length calibrated for various vehicles transmissions.

I've used OBD scanners, inline transmission temp gauges, and even IR temp guns and have had no problem getting the correct level on dipstickless transmissions.

Older 3/4 speed transmissions, with dipsticks, weren't as critical to level as the newer 6-10 speed dipstickless transmissions. And, even though most didn't know it, there is a specific temp for accurate full level mark even on the older ATF dipsticks. For example, one of my older Toyotas has an ATF dipstick calibrated for 158F-176F for the hot range. At 158F, its at the bottom of the hot range mark, and at 176F, its at the top notch. And, the range on the disptick is pretty narrow.

Sure, there is a filter. Its micron rating is nothing to brag about, and within the life of the transmission, should never clog or be excessively restrictive from debris build up. Sad, but even a cheap orange can oil filter will easily out filter it. I guess that a 100 micron coarse fiber media filter is much better than a 200-250 micron metal bug screen. But, most automotive oil filters are <30 micron rated. I'm pretty sure the simple Magnefine filter was around 35 micron which easily beats the OE pan fiber filter. The Racor LFS ATF filter is rated down to 7 micron. If you're happy with that joke of an OE filter, so be it!
 
#22 ·
See? You bring up a very excellent point in the first paragraph!
Since my TC replace it is not better; it is different! Erratic, noisy at times.
But WE have no way to tell if it's filled correctly.
Then there is less faith in how crappy the remaining ATF is with ground up TC vane, etc. I received the Blackstone Labs kit and am sending a sample for testing. Just done talking to service writers that never been near a drive train, but can't talk to the service manager.

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#23 ·
Which brings up two more questions:
Would an in line filter cause a warranty issue?
How to get ATF level back after installing one?

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#24 ·
If an inline filter clogs, it could cause a warranty issue. If it is installed backwards, it could cause a warranty issue. If it breaks apart....

If installed correctly and changed every 30k miles, I don't foresee an issue. Warranty can not be voided just for installing it.

Get ATF to 110F and fill until it flows out the straw...vehicle must be on level surface, and all interior comforts turned off(HVAC/stereo/lighting)...

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...sion-fluid-temp-using-torque-pro-android.html
http://www.scangauge.com/x-gauge-commands/toyota-lexus-scion/
https://www.amazon.com/Newest-V8-00-034-Techstream-Diagnostic-Software/dp/B00W97K7O6
http://www.vxdiag.com/
http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=pr...gauges/transmission-temperature-display-gauge
http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/MaxTow-Transmission-Temperature-Gauge.aspx
http://scantoolresource.com/toyota-scan-tool/
http://www.m2kinc.com/detail-techstream-lite-111-25-24-1.html
http://www.obd365.com/wholesale/mini-vci-for-toyota-tis-techstreamsingle-cable-free-shipping.html

Oilmutt, not sure what you are asking for with a filter do-over. Filter links in post #9 of this thread.
 
#25 ·
Follow-up: I looked up some dealer service reviews for dealerships near me, found one that was good, and made an appointment. Service writer quoted me about $190 for the fluid exchange. Hope it goes well. Service writer said they recommend it done around 90K but I'm doing it early at 60K. If I can get them to show me what the fluid looks like, maybe I can tell when it should get changed again. The last 45K or so of those miles are all highway, I would think the fluid should not be in horrible shape at this point.
 
#27 ·
The color of the fluid means nothing. After 60k miles, of course it's going to be dirty. Get a sample of the fluid for an analysis. Blackstone Laboratory is a popular lab on "Bob is the OIl guy" website. Here's a link to the Blackstone http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

An oil analysis is the only way to test the condition of the fluid.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Wish i had taken a picture of what my fluid looked like when it changed it around 28,000. it wasnt overly dirty though. The only way to get the fluid out of the torque converter is really to have a machine to exchange fluid. But if you change the fluid often enough i dont find it to be an issue. its to bad when you take the drain plug and plastic piece out their is a pretty decent amount of oil still in the pan.

as i remember the filter was around 23 dollars and i ordered the WS fluid from amazon not being all that cheap either.

If you take the pan off get the extra magnets they suggest if your car doesnt already have them.
 
#30 ·
You guys got me worried now even though I took my 6th gen I4 SE to 170K (through the Mojave) without even checking the level without any issues.

Probably do a drain and fill pretty soon then eventually flush her through the cooler.

Might even buy a tranny pan and take on a science project of installing an F-16 ADG oil level sight gauge Yo!

just have to source one from somewhere.

http://lenzinc.com/sites/default/files/LSW-1_0.jpg
 
#31 ·
Drop car off, so it's cool-ish.

Drain.

MEASURE drained amount.

Get this;



Add a few splashes more to account for small loss/heat thingy.

Pump in.

Call it a day.


Just because the process is "X", doesn't mean it has to be done that way. That is a corp training video, nothing more.

I wish my buddies still worked at Toyota, I'd love to ask them how they actually do this "procedure" at the corp. shops...

You figure, flat rate, this shit would take you 1hr, when it pays 45min. no one would be doing it or selling it at 190$. At that price, 80$ is just fluid lol plus overhead at the shop......
 
#32 ·
Probably why I'm being told $300. Which is too far the other way IMHO. I really doubt they drop the pan and torque those bolts back on.
I used to play beat the clock at aVW dealership in another life.

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#34 · (Edited)
It is wrong to assume your transmission fluid came from the factory at the correct level. Mine was about a quart low from the factory and my Kansas dealer could not replicate the third to fourth gear flare and slippage that occurred when turning left and going upward towards a hill OR when slowing down for a red light which all of a sudden turned green and stepping on the gas.

After drain and fill by FL dealer at 66K miles where fluid was pumped into the "fill" plug and then forced out the "overflow" plug ....... PROBLEM FIXED.

Note my post #7 here from year 2014 where someone else had the same problem:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...011/746873-2009-camry-le-v-6-tranny-jerk.html
 
#35 ·
^ sure, but to also assume they haven't leveled them out of the box in anything 2012+, is a much sillier thought.

The process can be DIY'd now using the dashboard "info" center in these cars... it's part of the official release for those that do not have access to TechStream and still "level" it.
 
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