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Unhappy buyers starting to show up:(

34K views 200 replies 35 participants last post by  BKAvalon 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Skip, I'm loathe to reply. We know how you obsessed over the switch back to the Gen 3 Avalon. Are you going to make your new mission trash talking the 2013?

People have different opinions about the same car. But I'm thinking we've been talking about three different cars:

1. The Gen 3 Avalon
2. The Gen 4 XLE V6 and the Hybrid, with 17" wheels
3. The Gen 4 V6 Touring and Limited, with 18" wheels

You had car number 3 and didn't like the ride. So sorry. I've never driven car number 3, since I was focused on the Hybrid as my excuse for trading in a perfectly satisfactory 2007 Avalon Touring. Now I have an even more satisfactory 2013.

From what some of those people were saying on the Edmunds forum, I'm thinking they should have taken a longer test drive. And what's with some of those drivers? There are plenty of potholes in these parts, but I make I my duty to steer around them. Saves more than the ride comfort.

You know what, maybe Toyota should have made the 18" wheels an option on the 2013 Touring and Limited and made sure the dealers explained the difference to customers. I know I've always felt no normally sized passenger car needs rims larger than 17". Unless the driver is into making a statement with rims and boy racer tires.

So maybe some editions of the 2013 Avalon are not buicks anymore....
 
#3 ·
Skip, I'm loathe to reply. We know how you obsessed over the switch back to the Gen 3 Avalon. Are you going to make your new mission trash talking the 2013?

So maybe some editions of the 2013 Avalon are not buicks anymore....
Sorry I and other are letting our feelings be known.

Signing off and baring anything I feel is worth saying, I'll now express my feelings or concerns again.

Skip
 
#5 ·
The way I see it, Skip is pointing us to another forum containing experiences of 2013 Avalon owners. As a prospective purchaser, I'm interested in all such, positive and negative. Though, the common thread running through these complaints is that they're from longtime Avalon owners who liked the older, cushier design. I'm coming from the opposite direction (my daily driver for the last 8 years is a 2005 Scion xB, which I bought because I have a thing for simple, boxy cars, not because it's all I could afford), so I suspect I'll feel differently about the ride :lol:
 
#7 ·
Okay, I read through many of those posts from the website Skip posted the link to. If I had to guess, by the language used, I'd say most of those peeps are old. Like late fifties old. lol Anything other than a wet sponge gliding across an icy road will make them feel like they are riding a "lumber wagon."
 
#15 ·
This is my first post, as a new member. I'm amused by "late fifties old." I am 77 and the very happy owner of a 2013 Toyota Avalon Limited V6 with Tech Package, in Champagne Mica/Almond. I have the 18" wheels and low profile tires, of course. I come to the Avalon from a Lexus ES300 which I drove and loved for 15 years.

I am completely happy with my new Avalon. I find it gorgeous inside and out. It is a driver's car: fast, quick (Car & Driver got 0-60 in 6.0 seconds!) and responsive with a taut, controlled ride and really excellent handling for a car of its size and luxury. It has every conceivable electronic bell and whistle and safety feature. I purchased it through the USAA Buyers Program for $2,600 below the sticker price. I considered the Hybrid but chose performance and the smoother drive-train over economy. On my first 100 mile freeway trip I got an honest 33 MPG, and it looks like I will be getting 27 MPG overall. Not bad, and certainly better than my Lexus's 23 MPG overall.

Robert N.
 
#11 ·
I guess I didn't realize that the 2012 Avalon was the last bastion of the boulevard cruiser!

Good thing that Skip got his leftover 2012 when he did; it very well could be the last of its kind. Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln,Mercedes, Lexus, and others have moved on. The Grand Marquis, Crown Vic and Town Car are gone. Why? There's no business case for any of them to build such cars any more, even in small numbers.

Enjoy your 2012!


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#12 ·
Toyota expected to turn off a bunch of people with this car. The bottom line is, they'd rather sell 70,000 of them to a younger crowd than 20,000 of them to the 55+ community. Yes, of course those older folks are going to be the first ones to buy the new Avalon, they clearly didn't get the hint that it's not the same car anymore.
 
#13 ·
Not clear what you are saying. Will sell to younger crowd AND to the older crowd! I'm a Geezer, soon to be 74, and I Know what I'm getting into with new Avalon- I look forward to change not backwards to my two previous Avalons 2000 XLS and 2006 Limited. Why do you assume 55+ crowd are not well informed?
 
#16 ·
I'm actually pleased to see the new ride dynamics being a problem for some folks. To me it means the car is indeed stiffer, someting I actually prefer, so that's good. I never had an Avalon prior to this 2013 model, so I cannot compare to the previous generations of the car. I am certainly at the lower end of their target buyers (42), and I can see myself being happy in this car for many years, or at least until they produce an AWD version. :)
 
#18 ·
I'm still about a week out from taking home my 2013 Avalon limited hybrid so maybe I'll change my tune when I actually get it. But...I'm in my late 50's and this will be my first Avalon. The thing that a lot of the old time Avalon owners are complaining about is why I'm buying this one. I like the slightly smaller size, that is the one feature that ultimately made me pull the trigger. I like the sportier look. I like the front grill.

When I first sat in one ( an XLE) I was a little disappointed in the "feel". I thought it felt too Camryish. But then when I actually got a chance to test drive a limited hybrid, I was hooked. I went from not sure if I was going to get one to can't wait until I can get my hands on it real quick.
 
#28 ·
In defense of Skip, I'll say that I do appreciate everyone's honest opinion of the car, whether they like it or dislike it. I do respect someone who buys a car and can be honest enough with themselves to admit they don't really like the car. It's easy to convince yourself you like a car that you bought because you're somewhat biased -- you don't want to feel like you just spent $40,000 and made a bad purchase!

It's not good to snowball a person just because they disagree with you, whether you like the car, or you don't like the car (like on the Edmunds forum link). It's too easy on a forum once a bunch of replys come in one way or the other to gang up on the minority.

On the other hand, forums, especially on Edmunds, tend to attract a lot of people who complain about their cars and their problems. Why? Because when your car is giving you problems, where do you go but the internet to find the solution! And Edmunds forums are a popular place for this.

You don't hear enough from people who don't have problems and are just happy with their car. These people don't need to go on a forum because they're busy just getting on with their lives, driving their cars without issues. That's why I'm glad to hear a lot of you are happy with your new Avalon purchases. It helps me to know that more than a few of you enjoy your new car.

In addition, a lot of the posters on the Edmunds site seem to be comparing their old Avy with the new one and are just not happy with the direction the car is going. Change is hard for some of us - I get that. I think it's obvious Toyota strategically targeted a certain buyer with the new Avalon (younger) and if they alienated some of the older buyers in the process; so be it -- as this was their strategy...only time will tell if it is successful.

How 'quiet' or 'soft and cushy' you want the ride to be all depends on your perspective and it's going to be relative to your taste. Some like the 'floaty boat' car - ala Buick and others like the more sporty car ride - ala BMV.

I personally like the ride to be in the middle of cushy and sporty which is why the Avalon does sound attractive (though it isn't the only car I'm considering). I want it quiet but it doesn't have to be a Lexus coffin quiet. But I need some road feel and steering responsiveness otherwise I'll feel like I'm going to fall asleep at the wheel. I don't like it when you don't feel like you have good control of a car.

I have not test driven the car (I cannot wait to but I've been too busy lately). Ultimately, isn't this the real test anyways? You've really got to do your homework before you buy an expensive vehicle. And not just by reading forums. If you do buy a car and end up not liking it, there's no one to blame but yourself.
 
#30 ·
I enjoy reading good/bad reviews & stories as well. I can say, at 36, this is my first Avalon and I absolutely love it. You guys can try and give it all kinds of derogatory names (Buick, Boat) but it is a fantastical car in ALL aspects. Quiet, comfortable, powerful...the list goes on. These are the attributes that brought me to this car. I drive a lot, I have over 1,000,000 miles on the road for work (used to be in field service, now I'm in sales). A smooth comfortable, quiet ride are paramount to me. This new Avalon does not appeal to me at all. And by the sounds of it, it is no luxury car. Wanna know why they are going on that "sporty" direction??? Lexus...period. C&D said (for the 2006 Avalon) "want to buy a Lexus? Save your $$ and buy an Avalon". That drove fiscally wise folks away from buying a Lexus and getting into a car just as nice and saving $5-$10k. Now, instead of the Avalon being Toyotas "Luxury" flagship it is merely an "expensive Camry". Enjoy your expensive Camrys guys. And if you're on the road every day as long as I am you will likely grow very tired of that "road feel" and "tighter ride". And oh yeah, that "sportier/tighter" ride WILL translate into "noisier/rougher" ride over time...

I know when I go to replace my 06 Avy Limited (with every available option) I will be doing it with a '12 not a '13. After that....who knows.


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#33 ·
I didn't take it out for a ride (it was in the showroom). I was there for a used car, not even considering a new one. Not nearly as comfortable to even sit in. Noticeably smaller, high-tech interior that feels like an expensive Camry. The poor reports of ride quality go with what I saw while checking it out in the showroom. For kicks I may take one out when a bunch show up just to prove these division points out. It is VERY likely the ride will not be luxury at all, just like the interior. The whole Gen4 is geared to guys my age who aren't grown up yet...

That being said, I have had a ride in a 2013 Camry....yup, it's a Camry. Gen4 Avalon=Same car made to look fancier...that's it.


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#43 · (Edited)
I understand what you're saying. And I will agree that there are some degrees in opinion with regards to luxury. Do I think a quiet, cushy ride are base elements?...yes.

I'm 36. I love a nice sporty ride for fun. And when I want that I just grab my wife's '03 Eclipse GTS Spyder and give it a squeeze (super nice car and very fun to drive). However for work miles (the loin share of my driving) I want luxury. Not sporty, or tight. Nice cushy seats & ride, with smooth power. And I get all of that with my '06.

BTW, I think BMW's up to the 5 series are all sport no luxury. You're not going to get into a luxury Bimmer until you get to the 7 series....

Lastly, when I say the Gen4 isn't luxury I am not trying to offend current owners, I'm simply giving my assessment. I just don't think the Gen3 & Gen4 are the same class car. Gen3=Luxury, Gen4=Sport-Sport/Luxury. BTW, I am sure it is a great quality car. My comments should not be taken in that light at all. That being said, I think the Camry is a great car! Just not very comfortable for long hours in regularly....

And yeah, I just might say hi to Skip....most of my driving is in Maine!!



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#44 ·
I understand what you're saying. And I will agree that there are some degrees in opinion with regards to luxury. Do I think a quiet, cushy ride are base elements?...yes.

I'm 36. I love a nice sporty ride for fun. And when I want that I just grab my wife's '03 Eclipse GTS Spyder and give it a squeeze (super nice car and very fun to drive). However for work miles (the loin share of my driving) I want luxury. Not sporty, or tight. Nice cushy seats & ride, with smooth power. And I get all of that with my '06.

BTW, I think BMW's up to the 5 series are all sport no luxury. You're not going to get into a luxury Bimmer until you get to the 7 series....

Lastly, when I say the Gen4 isn't luxury I am not trying to offend current owners, I'm simply giving my assessment. I just don't think the Gen3 & Gen4 are the same class car. Gen3=Luxury, Gen4=Sport-Sport/Luxury. BTW, I am sure it is a great quality car. My comments should not be taken in that light at all. That being said, I think the Camry is a great car! Just not very comfortable for long hours in regularly....

And yeah, I just might say hi to Skip....most of my driving is in Maine!!



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Tell Skip we said "Hello!" :hi:
"
SUMMARY: The 2013 Toyota Avalon is positioned well above the popular Camry, and rightfully so, since the level of comfort and convenience warrant such placement. The rear seating provides plenty of legroom for those over six feet, even when they are seated behind forward passengers of the same height. Rear seats recline for added comfort, and there is a power rear sunshade to protect occupants from heat and light.
The steering wheel both tilts and telescopes, featuring controls for Bluetooth hands-free phones, the audio system, climate system and the information center. The Nav system provides real-time traffic prompts -- invaluable for trouble-free commuting (if there is such a thing). Toyota's Entune connectivity
system allows staying in touch while on the road.
Acceleration is crisp, and power output is plentiful, with smooth gear changes delivered by the six-speed automatic gearbox in the gas models. (The Hybrid Avalon performs equally well with its CVT gearbox.) Handling attributes are positive and confidence inspiring.
The Avalon is quite luxurious, and though it's not officially categorized as a sport sedan, it is capable of holding its own against many other, more expensive competitors. The new Avalon is an ideal vehicle for traveling in comfort with security for all occupants or even for taking an occasional romp on the track. Yes, it's that good.
© Auto Impressions, 2013"
 
#50 ·
I assumed you knew -- I only pointed it out in case others read the review and were misled by the quoted statement. I believe that with a saw, a crowbar and a large hammer one could make them recline, but it might prove difficult to get them back upright and stay there.;)

Robert N.
 
#52 ·
The car is great if they had not bolted the front axle solid to frame. Sporty and firm is one thing but having a collision with every bump on road is reason to trade 2013 Avalon Ltd (1500 miles) off. Be prepared to to take beating if you buy one.
ex·ag·ger·ate (
g-z
j
-r
t
)v. ex·ag·ger·at·ed, ex·ag·ger·at·ing, ex·ag·ger·ates
v.tr.1. To represent as greater than is actually the case; overstate: exaggerate the size of the enemy force; exaggerated his own role in the episode.
2. To enlarge or increase to an abnormal degree: thick lenses that exaggerated the size of her eyes.

v.intr. To make overstatements.

:lol:
 
#53 ·
I don't get the complaints about the ride quality. I live where they have some of the crappiest roads in the US due to frost damage. It was so bad in another car that I swapped out the factory 20's to 18's to improve ride quality and save weight.

Driving on the same roads the AH is like a magic carpet compared to most cars WITHOUT being floaty like a Japanese Buick. I think Toyota hit the right combo of good ride and still enjoyable to drive even when the road is something other than a straight line stretching to the horizon. It was much better than the Camrys I drove as well on the same road. I would say check the tires that are on it. Mine has the Michelin Primacy tires which are the highest rated in their class for ride comfort. I'll have a chance to compare them against the Contis I ordered on other wheels. The 17" wheels ride much better than the 18" one in my area.
 
#54 ·
So let me get this straight....people bitch about Toyotas lacking any sense of "sport". So Toyota decides to inject a bit of "sport" into the new Avalon...tighter handling, more engaging ride quality, etc.....and people...umm...bitch. :whatthe:
 
#61 ·
I was so worried about getting the 'Stones with my hybrid, when I went to picker her up, I left my wife in the car as I scoped out every Avalon on the lot to Michilins. No luck!!! All had the 'Stones.

I had my mind made up that I was not going to take the vehicle until they could provide the Michilins. As we approached my new girl, I immediately headed to the tires...my salesman said..."Dont' Worry...thery're Michilins".

End of story!!!

They are SMOOTH!!!
 
#62 ·
!First Post!
Bigdealdave here, I've been selling Toyotas since 2007. I've always been a fan of the Avalon, but never enough to consider purchasing one. The ride is certainly a bit firmer on the 13, especially with the 18s, but overall the car seems smoother, quieter and WAAAAYYYYY better looking than the previous Geneeration. The materials inside are MUCH less chintzy, and the room inside is still significatly larger than the Camry and only a touch smaller than the outgoing Avalon.
On top of that I can attest that initial interest in the new model is very strong. Our dealership has been selling every one we get weeks before they get to the dealership, and we've had to reserve one for our rental fleet just to ensure interested customers will have one to look at when they stop in.
The outgoing model had a little softer ride, that its where the comparative advantage ends for the prevous gen. The improved agility, better technology, quieter cabin, nicer materials, and more comfortable seats more than make up for the slightly firmer ride.
I like it so much, I have an order in for a v6 touring model- Magnetic gray with black guts- and I can't wait. And mission accomplished Toyota, cause I just turned thirty last year and I love this car. The nice thing about a customer like me is that this car isn't likely to be my last.
 
#63 ·
I love reading the bitching from cheesed off Gen 3 owners moaning about how "rough riding" and "loud" the new car is. Calling any Avalon rough riding or loud discredits you completely.

My grandparents have a '10 Limited and saw the '13 at the dealer last Friday when they were in for service. Both of them loved the look of the car, my grandma especially loved the interior. They'd buy a '13 tomorrow if their '10 was due for replacement.
 
#75 ·
I love reading the bitching from cheesed off Gen 3 owners moaning about how "rough riding" and "loud" the new car is. Calling any Avalon rough riding or loud discredits you completely.
You and others just don't get it. Tons of potential Avalon buyers expect the latest version of a luxury car to offer MORE ride comfort, MORE quiet and a PLUSHER interior than they ever experienced before. But neither the 2013 Avalon nor the 2013 ES350 are superior in those respects to the 2012 models they replaced - indeed the 2013 versions are slightly rougher riding, slightly more noisy and have noticably less plush looking and feeling interior surfaces; e.g. more hard plastic. It's like going backwards in time instead of forward. So these potential buyers will look over the competitions cars over more closely and many seem to have already been swayed by the new Lincoln MKZ and, to a lesser extent, the Hyundai Genesis / Azera.
 
#73 · (Edited)
I have a 2012 and was on a very tight budget when I bought it. But I did get a chance to look at the 2013 while having my 12 serviced. Both are great cars. My wife has a 2008 Lexus that we will trade later this year. The 2013 Avalon will be on the test ride list for sure. But I want to wait until the 14's are approaching and there is the year end sale and save a few $$.
 
#80 ·
ok, so would you still have purchased if …

So now here is the REAL question.

- Would you have still purchased the New Avalon if it was;

- Bigger / More spacious
- More comfortable
- ***Quieter / less road noise (yes some of that is tires - so don't sell it with Loud tires?)
- Larger trunk opening
- Had reclining seats in the back
- Full size spare
- Larger fuel tank

Remember, the 2013 design, just with the above features?

*** Many buyers switch to different size tires and rims after purchasing a car / truck, but they should have to do this, to get a smooth, quiet ride (Yes, in my opinion).



Hi folks. I know some of asked me to take a hike, but enough is enough already.

Is the 2013 Toyota a Nice car … yes!

Is the 2013 Toyota a "Premium Luxury Sedan", sorry no. But that doesn't make it a great car.

It is a very nice "Premium Luxury Sporty Sedan" In my opinion.

They say no, I say yes!

- Sports Paddle Shifters
- Sports Driving Mode
- Sports car feeling while driving

And this is fine for what they came up with, but do not try to sell it as a Premium Luxury Sedan, it just isn't.

YES it looks great!
Yes the new techie stuff is cool (and some of it I already miss).
YES the fit, finish and trim is outstanding, although I must admit I was not a fan of the raised panels and 3 color scheme.

Do I miss my 2013 … sorry no.

Do I miss some of the features offered on the 2013 Avalon, Hell yeah, but those features don't swing hard enough for the ones it doesn't have.

Would I have been happier if they would have made a "Sporty Version" along side a "Luxury Version", and then I could have purchased what I was looking for … YES

Hell they make a LS Sedan, An LS Sports Sedan and an even MORE luxurious LS L, so we know they could have done it.

Nobody made me buy the 2013, just like nobody made me trade the 2013 in towards a 2012. The 2013 just didn't fit the bill for me.

Money aside, I NEED to like what I drive, Feel and be comfortable in what I drive and I wasn't in the 2013 Avalon model I purchased.

Oh, for those interested, Toyota has emailed me several times, and call me at HOME to get my input, thoughts on the 2013 and why I traded.

Oh, the irony in this whole thing, is I really wanted (I think) an LS, in in the end, I spent (when adding my loss) about what it would have cost me for a nice used LS:(

Skip
 
#82 ·
So now here is the REAL question.

- Would you have still purchased the New Avalon if it was;

- Bigger / More spacious
- More comfortable
- ***Quieter / less road noise (yes some of that is tires - so don't sell it with Loud tires?)
- Larger trunk opening
- Had reclining seats in the back
- Full size spare
- Larger fuel tank

Remember, the 2013 design, just with the above features?

*** Many buyers switch to different size tires and rims after purchasing a car / truck, but they should have to do this, to get a smooth, quiet ride (Yes, in my opinion).



Hi folks. I know some of asked me to take a hike, but enough is enough already.

Is the 2013 Toyota a Nice car … yes!

Is the 2013 Toyota a "Premium Luxury Sedan", sorry no. But that doesn't make it a great car.

It is a very nice "Premium Luxury Sporty Sedan" In my opinion.

They say no, I say yes!

- Sports Paddle Shifters
- Sports Driving Mode
- Sports car feeling while driving

And this is fine for what they came up with, but do not try to sell it as a Premium Luxury Sedan, it just isn't.

YES it looks great!
Yes the new techie stuff is cool (and some of it I already miss).
YES the fit, finish and trim is outstanding, although I must admit I was not a fan of the raised panels and 3 color scheme.

Do I miss my 2013 … sorry no.

Do I miss some of the features offered on the 2013 Avalon, Hell yeah, but those features don't swing hard enough for the ones it doesn't have.

Would I have been happier if they would have made a "Sporty Version" along side a "Luxury Version", and then I could have purchased what I was looking for … YES

Hell they make a LS Sedan, An LS Sports Sedan and an even MORE luxurious LS L, so we know they could have done it.

Nobody made me buy the 2013, just like nobody made me trade the 2013 in towards a 2012. The 2013 just didn't fit the bill for me.

Money aside, I NEED to like what I drive, Feel and be comfortable in what I drive and I wasn't in the 2013 Avalon model I purchased.

Oh, for those interested, Toyota has emailed me several times, and call me at HOME to get my input, thoughts on the 2013 and why I traded.

Oh, the irony in this whole thing, is I really wanted (I think) an LS, in in the end, I spent (when adding my loss) about what it would have cost me for a nice used LS:(

Skip
Skip,

Welcome back. hehe It's not that your opinions don't matter, because they do. We appreciate the feedback you had on the 2013 and I'm happy you got what appears to "fit your bill!" The problem I think me and some of the others are having is this.....You bought a 2013, had a love/hate relationship with it, some buyers remorse, and then kept berating the 2013 with negative posts and links to similar posts. Enough is enough, like you said. :thumbsup:

Now I hope you enjoy the Superbowl! ;)
 
#92 ·
1) Sizes, smaller inside
2) Road noise (likely from 18" tires, but it's very noticeable on the road)
3) Not anywhere near as comfortable / cushy / floaty a ride
4) Back seat is noticeably smaller
5) Trunk opening is smaller

Then it's the cell phone:)

Skip
 
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