Rant from a Toyota Tech

[toyota_tech_01]

/rant on

Well it happened again Saturday, its almost a common occurance, and its something that I wish people would become educated on. I received a work order that read “Customer states rattle from sunroof area, per customer TSB cover this problem”.

I have been a Toyota technician since April of 1991 but it just amazes me that someone can sit down and read something on the internet and automatically think they know more than I do. Just because you read that there is a TSB out for your vehicle DOES NOT mean it automatically applies to your vehicle. In fact out of all the work orders I receive where the CUSTOMER SAYS the sunroof TSB applies, the TSB actually fixed maby 1 out of 4 of these vehicles. I so wish that you guys would just go and tell the service advisor what your problem actually is and let ME THE TECHNICIAN decide if there is a TSB for your problem or if its something else, FORGET THE TSB’S YOU HAVE READ AND DO NOT EVEN MENTION IT.

Here is where the problem comes in:

Service Advisor’s Job - A good service advisor puts all the information you tell them into the work order for your vehicle, if you mention a TSB they put it in that you mentioned the TSB.

Warranty Administrator’s Job – A warranty administrator’s job is to get me paid (YES I DO THIS FOR A LIVING). Now a warranty administrator also ensures that I don’t screw warranty by doing extra stuff.

The problem – The service advisor puts on the ticket that the problem you have is the TSB because you told him it was, now that mean’s I am going to get paid 0 diagnosis time. So if you all knowing TSB readers say your problem is the TSB, all I am getting paid to do is pull your vehicle in and perform that 1 repair and pull your vehicle out. So if your LUCKY maby the TSB did apply to your vehicle, but if it was any of the other COMMON rattle areas in your vehicle your screwed, your vehicle did not get fixed. And the reason it did not get fixed???????????????????????? BECAUSE YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE SAID FOR YOURSELF THAT THE TSB APPLIED TO YOUR VEHICLE, YOU SELF DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM FOR ME, I AM NOT GOING TO GET PAID DIAGNOSIS TIME TO FIND THE RATTLE ON YOUR VEHICLE BECAUSE IN THE WARRANTY ADMINISTRATORS EYES YOU TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS. Now after the repair when I test drive your vehicle to verify that the sunroof is not POPING the way the TSB covers Im done. If I hear the ticking from the sunroof garnish’s or the rattle from the sunroof controls, tough shit, its not getting fixed because YOU SAID THE PROBLEM WAS THE SUNROOF POP AS DESCRIBED IN THE TSB.

Ok, /rant off now. Where this whole post is comeing from is when I was leaveing work Saturday the same guy I was describeing above was calling me an idiot and incompitent technician for not fixing his car. Well buddy when I finished with your vehicle and drove it I heard the sunroof garnish rattle and figured it was probably what you were hearing, but due to your all knowing TSB knowledge I was not going to get paid for repairing it, because the warranty lady would consider it an add on repair. If you would of just simply told the advisor the vehicle was rattleing and pointed out the exact location of the noise your vehicle would have been fixed. You doomed yourself for being a TSB expert.

And its not just him, you internet trolls who try to self diagnose your vehicle cause your own headaches. Just tell me what your problem is, not what you think the cause is, I make my living by doing this. If you self diagnose a TSB that only pays .7 hours there is no way in hell I am going to spend 3 hours fixing the REAL problem and still only get paid .7. But if you would of just simply pointed out your problem your car would have been fixed right the first time.

And on a side note. The Scion Tc’s have more rattles than a coffee can full of rocks, they will never be completely quiet. They have almost no sound deadening material in them, for god sakes the headliner is held up with industrial strength Velcro. If you’re the kind of person that can hear a squirrel fart at 100 yards then Im sorry but you might as well just accept that your Tc is going to make noise, expecially with the sunroof sunshade open.

[Flea]

I feel your pain man. I've been working at a shop every summer for easy money and I hear this all the time. The Service Advisors and the Customer duking it out with the techie over a problem the customer tried to diagnose. Then the customer wonders why the problem wasen't fixed when it's obvious they didn't know what to look or hear for. So yeah it's annoying people should juts stop trying. If you don't know what you're doing stop trying to fake it. Had a moron in there once saying that one of his timing belts was making funny noises or something. But as it ended up the amatuer tried to change his own spark plugs and did it crooked, so when he took it out metal shards went into his engine . So in the end from all those lovely metal pieces flying through his engine tearing everything apart, he needed a new engine. So the technican wasen't dissapointed in the end when he got paid 20+ hours to do an engine replacement that could have been saved if the moron took it to the shop instead of trying to be something he's not .

my 2 cents

[Lauren]

I understand what you guys are saying. I use these forums to give me an idea of what is wrong-not to self diagnose. Being a woman and blonde, I have been taken on a ride by a few mechanics. My cam was stalling after driving it over 40 mph. I researched the problem and it sounded like and egr valve. I went to the shop-didn't mention what I reasearched and the morons did over $900 worth of work and still couldn't fix it. I was a moron too for not saying- 'Could it be the egr valve?'
Now I go into the shops with a little bit of knowlege. I mention that it sounds like such-and-such, and I also know what the problem could be, so when my car has a problem, I can tell if I am going to be taken for a ride.

[BoostedBlueToyo]

IMHO, The original post should be a Sticky, or should be put
below the TSB sticky if there is one


Tim Plessing
Columbia, MD

1990 celica turbo alltrac - grey/grey cloth - 123K - For sale
1990 celica turbo alltrac - blue/blue cloth - 152K - Under restoration
1993 MR2 turbo - SMG/black leather - 138K - SOLD
1993 MR2 turbo - blue/black leather - 57K
2005 Scion Tc - On order

[rolla-XRS]

Just a thought.

Perhaps it's in the best interest of everyone that if a Customer comes in quoting a TSB that the Service Advisor provide some indication of the impact of their statement. Service Advisors are not supposed to just blindly accept and type in a customer's complaint. They're supposed to probe a bit deeper. Ask questions like: Does the rattle happen at certain RPM's? When the sunroof is open or closed? When does it not rattle? etc etc. Service Advisors are supposed to have some basic diagnostic skills and know how to deal with people.

As a Toyota customer, if I spouted off some TSB# and the Service Advisor told me that "if you quote the TSB, then they don't do any diagnostics...they just go and fix the area covered by the TSB and that might not fix your problem"....then I might think twice about including the TSB on the service order. I hate having to go back multiple times for the same problem. So does the dealer and Toyota.

It's all about appropriate levels of communication. Not usage of the TSB. Most customers have no clue about the internal Toyota Warranty claims process and what it means to them. That's where the Service Advisor's strength is.

[toyota_tech_01]

Rolla that is a good post and Ill give you credit for a good point. However I will not supply a responce because I have never worked the service drive and I do not know what it is like to deal with the customer all day. Maby if there is an advisor / manager that reads this forum they can answer. However I do not think it is just our 4 advisors that are this way. I have friends that work at 3 other seperate dealerships (Acura / Lexus / Honda) and they say thier advisors do the same thing.

[wujo]

hey, can you guys help me with an issue with my gen5 since you all work in the shop? i've had this fixed before, but it is occuring again. whenever i close my sunroof / moonroof it doesn't align correctly and eventually it closes too far and there is a gap because the glass is lower than the roof of the car. do you know what causes this? is there a problem with the alignment?

thanks all.

[rolla-XRS]

It's definitely food for thought. I can't remember if Toyota Canada trains their Service Advisors (I'd be willing to bet they do) but I'll check tomorrow with the people who "train".

I just can't imagine that TMC would put up with it considering it ends up costing the Corp more money and ticking off customers. But then what do I know, being a cog in a different wheel.

[rolla-XRS]

Originally posted by wujo
hey, can you guys help me with an issue with my gen5 since you all work in the shop? i've had this fixed before, but it is occuring again. whenever i close my sunroof / moonroof it doesn't align correctly and eventually it closes too far and there is a gap because the glass is lower than the roof of the car. do you know what causes this? is there a problem with the alignment?

thanks all.

Gen5? Is that a Scion? Sounds like you're talking about a Celica.
Visit the dealer for quick inspection to see if something is actually wrong. If it is, they can fix it.

[toyota_tech_01]

Be a little bit more descriptive. How im reading your problem is that your sunroof will close properly at first then work its way down, as in the back in tilts down like it is slideing back a mm or so.

I very rarely see an actual mechanical problem with the sunroof frame / mechanism / motors, however I occasionally have to reinitialize some of them so the vehicle can relearn the sunroof operation.

What I "think" might be happening is this -- The sunroof closes but the motor is pushing the glass a tab bit too far forward putting strain on the motor / frame and eventually the motor / frame gives up and releases this strain.

If you have say a 2002 or newer modle Id first suggest reinitalizeing the motor, it is easy to do. The process varies sometimes but most are the same, Try the process im gonna outline below and if you can not get it to go, post your exact model and ill make sure im telling you the correct process.

1. fully open your sunroof.

2. press and hold the close button untill the sunroof is completely closed and release the button.

3. Within 5 seconds of step 2 press and hold the button to put it in tilt positin and release the button

4. Within 5 seconds press and hold the close button untill the sunroof closes itself, then the sunroof will completely open itself, then it will completely close itself, once the sunroof is completely closed you are done. make sure you are holding teh closed position the entire time of this step. Sometimes it takes 30 seconds or so for the sunroof to respond and start moveing.

What this is going to do is allow the vehicle to "see" the fully open and fully closed travel limit of the sunroof.


Oh, almost forgot. before you do this open up your sunroof and look at the tracks and make sure they are clean. Naturally you will have some road dirt there but make sure there is nothing excessive. If there is wipe it off and go buy a small tube of lithium / white / silicone grease and apply a LIGHT layer back to the tracking.

If you do go buy grease and you have a Honda dealer near by, they cary a grease called "shinitzu" grease that I swear by. Shinitzu is very multipurpose and also works extreamly well for lubricating body seals / weatherstrips.

[CamNub]

I'm about 90% sure hes talking about a camry.

[wujo]

yap, it's a camry gen5. sorry, i thought that this was the camry section....my bad.

what is happening is when i close the sunroof, it closes "too" much. the front end is fine, but the backend seems lower than the front...so there's a gap in the back....toward the trunk.

i tried what you suggested but am having issues with this part

Within 5 seconds press and hold the close button untill the sunroof closes itself, then the sunroof will completely open itself, then it will completely close itself, once the sunroof is completely closed you are done. make sure you are holding teh closed position the entire time of this step. Sometimes it takes 30 seconds or so for the sunroof to respond and start moveing

i hold the close button to close it and hold it down, but the roof doesn't react besides just closing it...it doesn't open back up like it would if i hit the button again.

am i don't this correctly?

thanks all for the help.

[toyota_tech_01]

what is the year?

[Toysrme]

Well if you people would more consistantly do your job, then we would be more inclined to accomidate you.

I trust one Toyota dept. for repairs and advice, and two parts counters.
*rant off*

[2AZ-FE]

Toyota_Tech_01,

I understand your frustration with people thinking that they know what is wrong with their vehicle. However, I would assume that this is part of everyones job. I deal with this at my job and so do other people. If you don't want to deal with stupid people, I suggest that you become unemployed because there are stupid people whereever you go and they will be there in whatever you do. My advise is to get over it. I understand the rant, but all in all, it will not help anything and you will still end up with people doing the same thing to you. That is just the nature of your work. Sorry to say it, but we all deal with it. Have a good one.