Eco vs. power

Wow! Didn't realize you missed me! I thought you were trying to run me off! :nerd:

Sorry for the long dry spell, a change in jobs (away from the dealership) really squashed my available time.

During training they always told us that the difference between the modes had to do with mapping in the PCM (ECM), not with actual performance. In other words, eco dampens your inputs into the ecm, but otherwise the results were the same. You have to push harder on the pedal to get the same response as a lighter pedal in power mode. Power does in fact delay shifting, ostensibly because a later shift, especially under heavier throttle, allows more torque to build up. A later shift will also drop the next shift higher in the torque band in the next gear, thereby gaining quicker access to "more" power. There were some other changes, like slightly higher ignition advance, but I never heard them mention changing valve timing or the like. It's more than just perceptive, but not very drastic either. They still have to stick within EPA limits and the parameters under which it passed initial testing. Bottom line: Eco slows your access to what you got; Power gets you to what you got quicker.

On the other hand, in my Prius, the difference is monstrous. Once again mostly a damping effect, but the throttle response difference is massive. For those who might say, "In a Prius?," I can only say you have to experience it to appreciate it. My HiHy isn't new enough to have the different modes, but seems like I remember them being very much like the Prius when I drove them.

Don't know if this is any clearer, but that's what I got!

 

Power does in fact delay shifting, ostensibly because a later shift, especially under heavier throttle, allows more torque to build up.

Although the rest of the post makes good sense, this statement doesn't. Torque isn't something that will "build up", torque is a statement of twisting force at a given rpm/throttle position.

To the OP, who stated that 3000 rpm is where their shift occurs in ECO mode...you aren't driving in a very ECO-promoting way...when I'm easing around, shifts are often well under 2000 rpm. Even being in a bit of a hurry, they often barely hit 2000 rpm.

Not everyone is as patient with their vehicles, fuel economy, contribution to the emissions cloud. As Protech said, be willing to push the go-pedal harder if you are in ECO, you'll get essentially the same result as when in PWR mode, just with MORE foot flexion required when in ECO mode.

 

Thanks Protech

 

...maybe I just need to disconnect the battery and then let the transmission relearn my driving habits.

Was does that mean? The transmission is learning something?

 

The transmission itself is fixed... but the electronic control unit can adjust. It's called adaptive learning. If Granny always drives the car, ECM learns that she always babies the throttle, and it will settle into a pattern of slower throttle response to input, possibly earlier shifts and the like. When Grandson borrows the car, he has to thrash it to make it go because of the adaptive learning process. If he keeps it long enough, when Granny gets it back she is going to complain because it is now shifting later, harsher, etc. You get the picture. Disconnecting the battery is sometimes a shortcut to erasing the adaptive memory and the ECM has to relearn, hopefully the way you want it to.

As a quick example, when Variable Valve Timing came out, it was VVT. After a while, it became VVTI, VVT with Intelligence. The Intelligence part was the anticipation of the ECM of your driving habits by adaptive learning. Since VVT can so drastically affect the torque band and power curve, the adaptation can be significant.

 

Allowing torque to "build up..."

Ok, then let me restate. In a gasoline powered reciprocal engine, by and large the higher the rpm of the engine, the higher the torque. Obviously, it peaks and drops off after a certain ceiling, but it doesn't make the maximum torque at lower rpm. It's the same as people saying the engine was in the "power band." The feel of the power band is not so much horsepower as torque. When I say that the torque is building up, I'm only saying the engine was moving closer to the maximum range of torque production. Since the "distance" between each gear (except for CVTs) is fixed, by shifting later, the engine drops into the next gear closer to the maximum torque production.

Hopefully that makes more sense.

 

Ah I see... I had about 100+ miles on the HL when I took delivery... Would ECM have learnt something from the previous driver(s) already?

To reset, do I just disconnect either the +ve or -ve node briefly - say a 2-3 seconds?

Would it also reset something else? (I don't really care about the radio presets or bluetooth pairing...)

 

Relearning

Well, I really need to start by asking what year and level you drive. That would help determine what needs to relearn. Toyota says the following will be inoperative or affected by disconnecting the battery:
Parking Assist
Door Lock
AC system servo motors,
and back power door.

Also, advises that you need to wait at least 80 seconds after you turn off the ignition before disconnecting the battery.

If the car only had 100 miles on it, I wouldn't even worry about it. In addition, it will learn back the way you are driving without clearing the memory. On the later years, the memory could only be cleared with the Toyota scan tool, so I really don't know for sure.

I'd say if you feel you have a problem, show it to the dealer and let them explain it.

 

Thanks Protech for the detailed information.

I have the XLE AWD.

I feel like I have to push down a little more on the gas peddle sometimes ... primarily driving in ECO mode. Maybe I just need to get used to it. That's why I was reading this thread about ECO vs PWR mode - and came across this relearning bit post by OP.

 

You absolutely have to push the pedal further to get more oomph then in power mode.

 

What Guitarguy316 said. For example, in my Prius (same concept, different execution) in eco I would estimate I have to push down about 1/3 of the pedal before getting any significant response, whereas if I switch to Sport I would characterize it as almost too touchy, but then just gets fun as I acclimate. I pay for it in fuel consumption, though! The power has to come from somewhere. The Eco just dampens your input to help you stay out of the throttle and reduce what we used to call jack-rabbit starts. The power is all there, it just takes more action on your part to get it.

 

No kidding about the Prius. Drove my son's Prius after we dropped him at the airport. He had it in Eco. What a dog!!

 

I've been driving a '99 5-speed manual... The car is super responsive -- if it's in the right gear!

I also read in another thread that the hybrid version is a little more responsive?

I test drove both, but at that time, I didn't really feel a difference as I was stepping down on the gas pedal to test the acceleration, and both seemed to be equally responsive....



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OMG, it just changes the shift points. Power mode lets you wind it out farther before it shifts. Eco mode shifts sooner to get you into a higher gear which saves gas.

 

I think it is, especially the AWD. In addition to the V6, you also get acceleration from two electric motors in the transaxle as well as the rear axle motor. This thing is a blast to drive to me!

 

Well we were considering the hybrid but the hybrid version didn't have the color combo we wanted and didn't want to spend the extra for the limited to get the colors... oh well

 

2017 Highlander Limited does not have the pwr mode, not all models have it, Limited has an ECO window but does not affect anything. Just helps you to stay in the best zone for gas milage ....

 

Not true. There is a power mode. See page 229 in the manual.

 

Thanks Redbelly, I did see that page and tried setting it while I was setting up radio in accessory mode (not started). Tried again after your comment and yes there is a pwr mode, much nicer, will probably use it along with start stop off. Just picked up this week so it I'm still exploring all the features, nice vehicle, look forward to a road trip!

 

^ Curious again...Whats the diff. between selecting "pwr mode" VS " just simply pushing go pedal down for more power" ? Tnx

btw...rereading Q/A here appears my Q answered on pg 3 or is it? Sure a mix of unrelated info here. :wink:

 

My experience with PWR mode is that it will tend to select a lower gear and hold it there longer, especially noticeable on highways. For example, if I'm going at 2k rpm on the highway, and let me foot off the gas pedal, PWR mode tends to keep it at 2k rpm (no gear shift) for a while but in ECO mode I can see it drop below 2k immediately (shifting to higher gear).

For city driving (below 40 mph), I don't really notice a difference in the two modes (especially after the TSB ECU update)