Hey guys! I thought I should put in my 5cent for what is worth. I think the negociation can be successuful both ways just depends if you are made for one for the other. If you can hold your ground and know your price before walk in I think you can go to the dealer and spend some time face to face, going back in forth until you get what you want. If you just hate going through all the hustling match I think you can do very well from your computer desktop. My experience when buying my HL ended with over 4g off the MSRP without having to make one single phone call. I started with making my choice of trim, colors and optionals then I just went to the main toyota web and sent about 10 requests for quotes to different dealers. You will get very different numbers but remember, the game just started. Choose your best offer and send it back to the other ones asking them if they can beat it. Eventually you will end up with 2-3 dealers going back in forth. Never talk on the phone, just ask to be contacted by email only. Always copy paste the best offer in your counter offers. One other think that I think you should keep for youtself until you got the price you want is the trade in and the financing details. If you have a trade in wait until you get the best price for the new one before strating to negociate your old car value. If needed you can do the same thing you did for the new one. If you are going to pay cash, the dealer should not know that before hand because they make money off the financing also and if they find out that you pay cash they will hold on to a higher price. It worked well for me, I actually counter offer them even at the dealer as the other seller emailed me with an extra package just to make me go there. Hope this will work for others too. Good luck! P.s . I love my new HL!