TOKYO (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.T) plans to sell ethanol-powered vehicles in the United States by 2008, following the lead of domestics General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - news) and Ford Motor Co. (NYSE:F - news), the Financial Times reported on Wednesday, citing an unnamed company executive.
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A Toyota spokeswoman in Tokyo acknowledged that Japan's top auto maker was developing flexible-fuel vehicles, mainly for the ethanol-smitten Brazilian market for starters, but declined to disclose specific product plans.
"We're proceeding with development of ethanol-based cars for Brazil, but for other markets we are gauging what needs there are first," she said.
Toyota, a market leader in gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles, has resisted the technology amid worries about the impact of highly corrosive ethanol on rubber seals in the engine, the Financial Times said.
U.S. auto makers have produced about 6 million flexible-fuel vehicles, with many running on E85, or a fuel blend consisting of 85 percent ethanol, or ethyl alcohol, and 15 percent gasoline.
Toyota's new vehicle would be fitted with anti-corrosive parts to meet U.S. regulations, but the auto maker suggested that a less ambitious strategy of mixing only 10-15 percent ethanol into gasoline might produce greater savings, the paper said.
Toyota is still keen to spread the use of hybrid vehicles, which save fuel by twinning a conventional engine with an electric motor, the spokeswoman said.
President Bush has called for more ethanol use to reduce foreign oil imports, but fewer than 1,000 of the nation's 170,000 filling stations currently sell E85.
Bush has set a six-year goal for making ethanol practical and competitive as an alternative fuel, and vowed to fund additional research into ways to make it not just from the commonly used corn but also from wood chips or grasses.
I just think Toyota needs to be a little more enthusiastic about it and Toyota should not be putting all its eggs in the Hybrid basket... but then again.. Toyota knows better.....
Big ups to Toyota. It's kinda a drag cause, how many of us actually goes out and buys a new car. most of us a used car buyers. Over time, I thnk it would help out.
Considering that there are less than 1000 E85 filling stations and it is not that much more economcally friendly, it is not suprising that Toyota has been slow to roll anything out.
Considering that there are less than 1000 E85 filling stations and it is not that much more economcally friendly, it is not suprising that Toyota has been slow to roll anything out.
IS GM thinking with its ass again (sorry Stevie_Ray)? Why are they pursuing it so enthusiastically?
GM has been quick to jump on the E85 bandwagon because they can claim tax credits for producing the vehicles and it's not that hard to build a flex fuel vehicle compared to a gas/electric hybrid, hydrogen powered car, etc.
Off topic somewhat: I'm personally not a fan of E85. I have a few friends that have flex-fuel cars/trucks, and their overall experience has been mixed at best. As long as the government pays huge subsidies, it's cheaper, but the lowered fuel economy weakens or negates that benefit. Reduced horsepower and most of the sales pitches that it will save the environment are being stretched a bit. The fermentation process releases huge amounts of un-regulated CO2 and many of the ethanol plants in my area use coal for power. Ethanol does decrease use of petroleum which is important however. All in all, it's a good interim solution, but it's being sold as the solution, when what is really needed are fundamental changes. I have been using E10 for as long as I can remember and it seems to work much better than E85 as a fuel although requires more gasoline.
This is the same argument that people have against propane.
My brother runs propane (I did too for 10 years) on his service trucks.
The motors are built to run propane, (i.e. higher compression 13:1 and hardened valves) and he saves 40% over his diesel trucks for fuel economy with no loss of power.
If you convert stock motors to run other fuels they were not designed for, then yes, you do run less efficiently. If a motor was designed to run pure ethanol,or the mix, it would do fine, and people would use it. The only fear is from oil companies that would no longer control the supply of fuel, since you or I could make it anywhere (in a still) with ease.
The emissions from this fuel are cleaner than diesel and gasoline by far. And farmers would start to make money again.
Well said guys the so called big oil companies suck big time, these oil companies are going to screw up the economy big time and we all will suffer. Oil companies are making huge profits and blood suckin investors are flying high. Ethanol is the slap on the face of these rabid dogs so go for ethanol. If Brazil can do it so can we. I hope Toyota and Honda will soon set up the gold standard in the market with Ethanol Hybrids soon.
I agree that Ethanol is a little band-aid fix on the oil problem. I fully support the farmers of America getting money back into their wallets because it just sucks ass to bust your hump for little money.
But, Bush and General Malfunction have pushed E85 as the fix to the problem. IT STILL USES GAS so it's not the damned solution, just an EASY fix which is what this administration is all about. "Fuck the future, let's think about RIGHT NOW.. That's what's important." Anyways, this is turning into a Anti-Bush rant so I'll stop
I know the solution though... Steam-power baby!!! Let's do it old school!! Steam 3S-GTE, here I come!!! LOL
Although, it's nice for you turbo kids (E85) as its shown wonderful results for turbo-powered engines.
....IT STILL USES GAS so it's not the damned solution, just an EASY fix....
Actually, it's a pretty good solution. The United States is still about the third-highest oil producer on the planet, and we're currently supplying roughly 40% of the oil we use every day. So, if we could just convert everything to E85 overnight (and thus use only 15% of the gasoline we normally would), we could quite easily produce enough gasoline to keep that going for many years to come.
And, the only real "cost" to change a car to run on E85 is to change out any materials in the fuel system that might be damaged by the alcohol, plus some kind of change or upgrade to the fuel system computers or whatever to adjust for the change in fuel energy characteristics, and then you're good to go.
Of course, E85 is still costlier than gasoline (though that might change by the time you read this some months after I've written it here), and it will always produce a bit less energy than gasoline, so you'll need to burn more of it to get where you want to go.
But, it would allow the US to just walk away from middle-east and OPEC oil producers, and gain some kind of control over our gasoline destiny compared to what we have now. Gas prices are already going over $3.00 per gallon, and $4.00 per gallon might not be too far away. At what point does our entire oil-dependent economy begin to collapse -- $5.00 per gallon? Right now, it is simple DEMAND that keeps the oil prices going up -- here's an alternative that would take a ton of demand out of the oil market. E85 could allow us to live a more or less "normal" life for perhaps the entire lifespans of everyone reading this right now -- and give us plenty of time to move to even better alternatives.
So, it's a pretty darn good solution -- if only we could "get there." It'll take quite a bit of doing, but I don't see any other technology that's anywhere near as close to "reality" as E85 is right now. I sure think it's the best way to get out of the mess we're currently in, unless anyone has any better suggestions....
ethanol is currently expensive is because there are not enough processing plants and the supplies are low. The US is currently building around 30 plants to refine ethanol and gasoline. Toyota's plan may be cheaper because ethanol takes time to get. Be nice if they also came with a hybrid.
I support E85 but we have to realize that it isn't exactly simple and is NOT THE SOLUTION, just a bridge to our final stop, ZERO oil reliance (or drastically reduced).
Older (Pre-1988-ish) vehicles will hurt the most because of the Ethanol corroding metal and rubber parts primarily designed for gasoline and manufacturers at the time didn't try to prepare the engines at all for ANY blend of ethanol. After that, they tried to remove alot of the components so that you could atleast run 10% Ethanol with no ill-effects. No manufacturer recommends pushing the Ethanol envelope past 10%. What happens when we do? Who will pay when my newly leased Lexus IS350 starts to go beserk? Toyota? Bush? Not me!
As well, it has less power then gas SO you have to use more to equal the same power you'd get with gas. As well, should you decide to pop in a crazy mix of Eth/Gas into the tank, you'll get a CEL code because of the oxygen being released from the burned Ethanol mix. MEANING, a LEAN A/F mix. If you know engines, you know just how wonderful it'll sound IF allowed to persist with a lean A/F and the wonderful end result. Couple that with the corrosive properties that E85 will get should you get water in your fuel tank and then E85 looks a little.. iffy.
Now, for the pollution. E85 forces the catalytic converter to not work properly during start up because it doesn't get the cat to it's proper operating temperature fast enough. Once you've let it heat up, it's fine. But, for that little while the cat wasn't working, we just released some nice pollution into the air.
Do I support E85, hell yeah.. Any way to force those gut-sucking intestinal parasites... I mean, OPEC to think about how they are cranking up the price of fuel. I'm tired of paying out the nose for friggin' GAS!! This has to stop and if E85 will scare those bastards, then let's give them hell. My engine and I will try to keep up. FIGHT OPEC! FIGHT OPEC! Ethanol in their eyes!!!
I hope I didn't scare anyone in using E85 but just know that it doesn't EXACTLY work the same as regular gas. I support giving people the full info and then letting them decide what they want. As for me, come E85, I'll be the first in line with my checkcard at hand
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