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Old 05-01-2006, 10:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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USA Avalon shows dent in Toyota quality

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../60501002/1041

QUALITY GLITCHES
Since the Avalon's 2005 redesign, Toyota has issued service bulletins to dealers on these topics:

>> Bad U-joint welds
>> Faulty catalytic converters
>> Leak in oil-supply line for variable valve timing
>> Vehicle drifting

LOS ANGELES -- Alan Seider has owned 11 Toyotas since 1982, but his 2006 Avalon likely will be his last.

He says quality glitches have bedeviled his Toyota sedan, which he has driven less than 6,000 miles since he bought it last July. His dealer could not solve the car's problems. Toyota headquarters stonewalled his appeals, he says.

"There have been significant throttle control and transmission hesitation issues," says Seider, 45, a computer consultant from Roswell, Ga. "I've isolated 15 different rattles in the body work."

Seider is far from alone. Internet chat rooms such as Edmunds.com Town Hall are littered with complaints from Toyota loyalists about the redesigned Avalon, which went on sale in February 2005.

The Avalon's launch problems point to a larger issue. To meet demand, Toyota has added factories in North America and thousands of new employees. Executives are worried that Toyota's rapid growth may dilute its quality standards.

Toyota and Lexus divisions still exceed industry averages in various studies that measure quality. Toyota predicts that the Avalon will score well in J.D. Power and Associates' Initial Quality Study, to be released in June.

But the quality gap is closing. And Toyota recalls have spiked in the last two years.

Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.

The Avalon is the Toyota brand's most-expensive car, starting at $27,355 including destination charges. The redesigned 2005 model was embraced by consumers; Toyota sold 95,318 Avalons last year in the United States, up from 36,460 in 2004. Avalon sales peaked in 2000 at 104,078 units. It is assembled at Toyota's Georgetown, Ky., plant, alongside the Camry and Camry Solara.

It's a car-buying axiom that one should never buy a car in its first year of production, before the bugs are worked out. But in recent years Toyota and Honda largely disproved that old saw, delivering nearly bulletproof vehicles from Job 1.

Now the Avalon redesign is showing that even mighty Toyota can slip up.

Kevin Clingenpeel, a 37-year-old insurance litigator from Fort Mill, S.C., loved his Avalon for the first 2,000 miles. Then the transmission shifts became erratic, especially in cold weather. The engine developed a persistent knock, which could not be cured by changing grades of gasoline or by using a fuel-injector cleaner.

"I pulled up next to a Ford F-350, and I could hear my valve train clicking louder than his diesel," said Clingenpeel, whose Avalon is his family's third Toyota.

Clingenpeel says his dealer gave the car "a wink and a nod" when he brought it in three times for repairs. Clingenpeel then appealed to Toyota headquarters to send out a district service manager. Toyota refused. Now Clingenpeel is looking to sell the car.

"It's sad because there's a nice car hiding behind all this," Clingenpeel said. "But this is not up to snuff from what I would consider from Toyota."

The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.

While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.

Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.

"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.

Toyota spokesman John Hanson called the Consumer Reports ratings "the sum of small irritations more than anything else."

But Hanson acknowledged that Toyota has been concerned with the initial wave of quality problems for the car. Toyota's priority has been to find and remedy problems, get the fixes to the production line, and issue technical service bulletins so dealers can fix the faults on vehicles already on the road.

"The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.

The Avalon's transmission lurch is especially noticeable in low-speed crawls during rush hour, Hanson said. Previous Avalons had problems shifting smoothly at high speed with high engine revs. Toyota fixed the high-speed lurch by changing software algorithms, but the adjustment caused a low-speed lurch.

The low-speed problem "is all software," Hanson says.

Some customers are voting with their feet. In Seider's case, he replaced his wife's Toyota Sienna minivan with a Honda Pilot. He doubts he will replace the Avalon with another Toyota.

Said Seider: "I am so disappointed in Toyota. I've had previous first-year vehicles, but nothing like this ever happened. Toyota's build quality has declined in recent years, and there seems to be nothing the dealer can do. Toyota has reached a size that they've lost sight of the individual customer.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Toyota needs to slow down the growth or else these types of GM/Ford-like problems will slow it down for the company.
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If one Avalon is going to turn Mr.Seider off of Toyota, let him go to hell or any other manufacturer he picks... Whatever...


Seems like Autoweek is owned by GM or something..As I read OTHER Toyota articles.. They can kiss my ass.

Some "good for nothing else" decided to publish his opinions thru Autoweek.. he/she can keep them to for him/herself.
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAV4EVR
If one Avalon is going to turn Mr.Seider off of Toyota, let him go to hell or any other manufacturer he picks... Whatever...

The problems probably didn't piss him off as much as toyotas handling of the problems. He spent $30000 on a car which is known to have problems similar to what he describes and Toyota still doesn't make it right?
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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said it before and i'll say it again: not wise to buy the first yr or a new generation. most, if not all, of these issues have probably been addressed for 2006 MY.

I won't for a second defend the way toyota (or any carmaker for that matter) will stonewall customers, though. VW took a serious beating over the last 2-4 years on this.

toyota has some experience with the whole engine sludge issue as well. Proper handling of an issue is almost more important that fixing the issue!
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Old 05-01-2006, 02:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pjsammy
said it before and i'll say it again: not wise to buy the first yr or a new generation. most, if not all, of these issues have probably been addressed for 2006 MY.
I agree and disagree. My parent's 2003 4Runner has never had any problems.
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Old 05-01-2006, 02:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's not a hard and fast rule that 1st yr models will be bad. its just that usually the first year is when theres bugs. not always, but more likely in the 1st yr than any other yr.

but its a toyota still. I'm sure there are plenty of avalon owners that havent had a single issue.

just my 2 cents
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have a 1996 Toyota Avalon XL and I did notice quality differences from our 1987 Toyota Camry. Our Avalon had power steering fluid issue when it was only 8 years old and the thing had to get replaced. 2 Flats and 1 Dead Battery. I will still buy Toyota, but things happens to every car.

I also had a 1986 Honda Accord and it had many problems and broke down alot.
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Old 05-01-2006, 03:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I knew this was going to come up sometime with the new gen. Avalon sooner or later
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Old 05-01-2006, 06:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BadChicken
I knew this was going to come up sometime with the new gen. Avalon sooner or later
I will just wait until the Avalon gets refreshed before buying it. My parents really want one but I tell them to wait for a more powerful engine and auxilary input. 268 horsepower is too weak compared to the S500
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Old 05-01-2006, 07:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Based on the way Toyota is handling this particular customer, it seems they're starting to do what GM and the other Domestic manufacturers were doing: Getting overconfident and relying too heavily on their brand name. If Toyota doesn't take care of isolated problems like these seriously, we may have a Korean revolution on our hands.
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Old 05-01-2006, 08:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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let those traitors go to hell. toyota did him well for 11 cars and then he trades off because of one bad experience? shouldve gone to lexus if he was that loyal, all he deserves to drive now is a GM product
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Old 05-01-2006, 08:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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That is what I have maintained for a long time that Toyota's obsession with profits and sales (which in turn means insane growth) is going to lead Toyota to ultimate embarassment due to poor quality products. It is inevitable when the primary focus is to produce as many vehicles as possible. This makes me respect Toyota less than other brand makers who make cars with passion and dedication.

Personally, my previous 2004 Corolla S had some issues, but my 2005 Corolla XRS has been as perfect as I could imagine it to be primarily because it comes off the same assembly plant as the Lexus RX330 in Cambridge Ontario. The material quality of leather, fabric, plastics and chrome used is top notch and stood the test of time. After 2 years, it still revs up to 8400 rpm with utmost refinement and feels as if I drove it off the lot yesterday, but as much as I love my XRS and Toyota, with Toyota's obsession with my becoming number one will drive me away from Toyota for my next car in the next 5-6 years and will probably look elsewhere. I hope I am proven wrong by then.
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It's obviously because of the high demand for Toyota's cars and the millions of jobs open for many people that's whats causing these problems. Too much glory can come back and turn on anyone or shall I say any company. It also stated the Toyota Sienna minivan someone replacing it the Sienna doesn't have as many problems like the Avalon in fact it got most reliable minivan I think for msn autos or some other place recommending it my mom did have an 01 Sienna and it was problem free the only reason why she got rid of it was because she doesn't need a minivan anymore.
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Old 05-02-2006, 02:56 AM   #14 (permalink)
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There's more fluff in the article than actual useful, analytical information. Where's the figures to show us how many Avalons are affected?

I mean really, it's an opinion article. I had a 2005 Avalon rental with 8,000 miles, and I returned it with over 12,000 miles. It was flawless, even when abused horribly.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The New Camry?

Is the new Camry going to have such glitches? I already know about the V6 Transmission, and the Side Airbags. Anything else from Toyota, and Im gonna go ballistic.
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