It comes as no surprise that Toyota has something up its sleeve int he mid-price range sports-car segment. As Nissan's 350z keeps rolling year after year with solid sales numbers and a growing fan base, Toyota has had no answer; the most sporting model in the current lineup is the TRD Tacoma pickups, as the company's sporting cars namely the Celica and Supra, are no longer around. But things may change dramatically very soon. As we reported several months ago, plans are under way for a new Supra. And we've discovered thatthe new Supra has the makings of something very special. Toyota is pulling no punches with this car. Simply put, it plans to take over the mid-price sports-car segment. The new Supra which we predict will go on sale in early 2008, will be powered by a naturally aspirated 3.5 liter V-6 (2GR-FSE in the GS350) The specially tuned version of this all-aluminum powerplant is expected to produce 350bhp at 7000 rpm and about 290 lb-ft of torque at 5000. Combine this with a curb weight of about 3200 lb, and you have a car that could run to 60 mph in the mid-4.0 secs. making it quicker than the current 350z. There is still the possibility that Toyota will jam its 4.3 liter V-8 into the engine bay, but not until later in its life cycle. The V-6 may come mated to a twin-clutch 6-speed manual transmission like the DSG used in the Audi and Volkswagon. Because the Supra will be built on the current Lexus IS platform, it will no doubt come with the same basic suspension setup upper and lower A-arms up rear. However, we hear that Toyota engineers are busy tuning it to handle with the best sports cars in Europe. The new Supra is experted to come in both coupe and convertible versions or perhaps as a retractable hardtop, with the price tag under that of the 350z. Think of it; a new sports-car priced in the low-$30,000 range with the handling and power-to-weight ratio of a car-and with Toyota reputation. It's a car that'll grab the attention of any enthusiast.
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This might be a shocker, but that sounds pretty lame to me. Just an attempt to get a name out there. To add onto that, Minus an IS500 based 5.0L version it sounds like it can't out-spec the old supra. So my question back to Toyota is, "Why bring back something if you don't plan on really topping what you've already done?".
"More of the same" may garner Toyota #1 auto sales by using the Camry & 'Rolla platforms to conquor the world, but that doesn't work with sports cars for long...
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This might be a shocker, but that sounds pretty lame to me. Just an attempt to get a name out there. To add onto that, Minus an IS500 based 5.0L version it sounds like it can't out-spec the old supra. So my question back to Toyota is, "Why bring back something if you don't plan on really topping what you've already done?".
"More of the same" may garner Toyota #1 auto sales by using the Camry & 'Rolla platforms to conquor the world, but that doesn't work with sports cars for long...
I'm in agreement, this seems more of a disappointment. Using an FE engine instead of a GE engine...not going to be very super at all compared to what it could be or used to be in the case of the Mk IV. I was hoping they would continue with the straight 6 and not let the JZ family die but it seems to be the case. To a sports car driver, fuel economy is probably the lowest of all priorities. This used to be a flagship Toyota, now from what it seems is just a cut down priced IS. I hope for the car's sake they stop thinking about the DSG and just give it a proper manual.
On sale in early '08??? that basically means they have almost all of the design finished and tooling up for production.... so where's the spy pics? I wanna see some pics!
I'm in agreement, this seems more of a disappointment. Using an FE engine instead of a GE engine...not going to be very super at all compared to what it could be or used to be in the case of the Mk IV. I was hoping they would continue with the straight 6 and not let the JZ family die but it seems to be the case. To a sports car driver, fuel economy is probably the lowest of all priorities. This used to be a flagship Toyota, now from what it seems is just a cut down priced IS. I hope for the car's sake they stop thinking about the DSG and just give it a proper manual.
Have you looked at the specs??? The preliminary specs look pretty impressive already. What's wrong with a 350hp engine? What's wrong with expected performance to be in the Mid 4 sec range to 60mph? I'm sure you've seen the performance of this engine in the IS350, what's there to complain about? The 350Z underperformed compared to its last gen and it sold better than ever. Now the new Supra will outperform the previous gen and costs about 15K LESSSS. More performance for less money sounds like a winning formula to me.
Have you looked at the specs??? The preliminary specs look pretty impressive already. What's wrong with a 350hp engine? What's wrong with expected performance to be in the Mid 4 sec range to 60mph? I'm sure you've seen the performance of this engine in the IS350, what's there to complain about? The 350Z underperformed compared to its last gen and it sold better than ever. Now the new Supra will outperform the previous gen and costs about 15K LESSSS. More performance for less money sounds like a winning formula to me.
Generally people usually find stuff to bitch about, and typically these are the people that won't buy a car like the Supra
I'm in agreement, this seems more of a disappointment. Using an FE engine instead of a GE engine...not going to be very super at all compared to what it could be or used to be in the case of the Mk IV.
I don't agree with that at all. The reason Toyota doesn't really make anymore GE heads is because the FE heads & havetrains have surpassed them.
There was never much differances in what the better FE heads could do VS what the GE heads could do. The differance in performance came from your typical FE cam using .30-.32" lift with only 228-232* of duration on weak cam profiles.
Besides. Minus the 2.5L 4gr-fse. Every GR block v6 wipes the floor with any "GE" head minus the 2jzgte that's even been produced. All the "performance" engines being narrow angle at this point should say something. Even the last GE heads were not nearly as wide in valve angles as earlier heads.
Narrow angle heads overall have more benifits for less tradeoffs than wide angle heads.
AFA the 2gr-fse VS 2jz-gte. The 2gr-fse is very close in power/torque production. With all due respect to both, the 2gr-fse is likely the more responcive engine. it would be very interesting to see an old supra at a racetrack race with a stock 2jz-gte, then swap in a 2gr-fse.
My point was simply that why sell the supra now? They're selling so few IS350's right now already... (Hovering around 1,000 units a month.) A supra isn't going to go flying off the showroom floors to be profitable. Nor is Toyota a "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" company. If it comes bakc, it's just to bring back a name. Not exactly something I can respect.
The 3uz-fe is an interesting engine choice for future versions. Tho one would greatly hope to see the 4.6L, or 5.0L v8 installed in its place as the 3uz-fe will be out of mass production by then.
situman citing the 350z as an example is not the best vision. The 350z is not some runaway success like the press would like people to believe. Nissan has YET to sell 60,000 350z's in a single year WORLDWIDE. Toyota sells nearly as many camry's in a single month in North America as Nissan sells 350z/fairlady's worldwide. Likewise, Toyota Motor Corp usa sells as many vehicles in one month as Nissan averages worldwide sales in a fiscal year.
darksparkz - I guess it would be fun to see an updated version just to see what Toyota would decide to do. In all seriousness, I do not think the i6's will last too much longer as a commonly found production car engine. They're more costly, slower in power delivery (more recipricating mass, more mass period) & do not offer any noteable advantage against other designs of today. There are too many people making superior v6 & v8 engines that are much smaller in packaging.
Sad, but true.
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"The lamest twice banned, non-female member of-all time." -Ekam, Thanks, I <3 you too! AIM/Yahoo Toysrme257th
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But Dont forget the allmighty JZ potintial ! recorded 1075 WHP on STOCK INTERNALS !
Please i dont wanna see any NA supras in the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toysrme
I don't agree with that at all. The reason Toyota doesn't really make anymore GE heads is because the FE heads & havetrains have surpassed them.
There was never much differances in what the better FE heads could do VS what the GE heads could do. The differance in performance came from your typical FE cam using .30-.32" lift with only 228-232* of duration on weak cam profiles.
Besides. Minus the 2.5L 4gr-fse. Every GR block v6 wipes the floor with any "GE" head minus the 2jzgte that's even been produced. All the "performance" engines being narrow angle at this point should say something. Even the last GE heads were not nearly as wide in valve angles as earlier heads.
Narrow angle heads overall have more benifits for less tradeoffs than wide angle heads.
AFA the 2gr-fse VS 2jz-gte. The 2gr-fse is very close in power/torque production. With all due respect to both, the 2gr-fse is likely the more responcive engine. it would be very interesting to see an old supra at a racetrack race with a stock 2jz-gte, then swap in a 2gr-fse.
My point was simply that why sell the supra now? They're selling so few IS350's right now already... (Hovering around 1,000 units a month.) A supra isn't going to go flying off the showroom floors to be profitable. Nor is Toyota a "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" company. If it comes bakc, it's just to bring back a name. Not exactly something I can respect.
The 3uz-fe is an interesting engine choice for future versions. Tho one would greatly hope to see the 4.6L, or 5.0L v8 installed in its place as the 3uz-fe will be out of mass production by then.
situman citing the 350z as an example is not the best vision. The 350z is not some runaway success like the press would like people to believe. Nissan has YET to sell 60,000 350z's in a single year WORLDWIDE. Toyota sells nearly as many camry's in a single month in North America as Nissan sells 350z/fairlady's worldwide. Likewise, Toyota Motor Corp usa sells as many vehicles in one month as Nissan averages worldwide sales in a fiscal year.
darksparkz - I guess it would be fun to see an updated version just to see what Toyota would decide to do. In all seriousness, I do not think the i6's will last too much longer as a commonly found production car engine. They're more costly, slower in power delivery (more recipricating mass, more mass period) & do not offer any noteable advantage against other designs of today. There are too many people making superior v6 & v8 engines that are much smaller in packaging.
Sad, but true.
Supra is a well known name since the 70s that will sell. Lots of people can not afford to buy a Porche, BMW coupe or even a 350Z. But if the Supra comes in with a low enough price with decent performance then a lot of new buyers will show up. As with all manufacturers, a faster Supra with a more powerful engine will be made to compete at the top end.
But for now, a low priced Supra with decent performance is what alot of people want. The IS350 is a luxury car. The Supra hopefully will be about sport as in sports car without alot of dead weight. Since most
of the platform and parts are already from IS, the new Supra does not have to be sold at a high price to be profitable.
Quote:
My point was simply that why sell the supra now? They're selling so few IS350's right now already... (Hovering around 1,000 units a month.) A supra isn't going to go flying off the showroom floors to be profitable. Nor is Toyota a "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" company. If it comes bakc, it's just to bring back a name. Not exactly something I can respect.
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