Amazing how you casually included the Cadillacs in the GM vehicle list but deliberately neglected to mention the IS and the GS. Ever driven the 4Runner Sport? Even if you have, I know it is not of your taste. End of story.
The FJ Cruiser... does not quality FOR YOU.. End of story there too.
Correct. There is no "true" sports car, as you would call it...
.... but you did a great job of putting a nice negative spin on the whole picture.... ..."WHERE IS THE DRIVING EXCITEMENT AT THE TOYOTA DEALERSHIPS???"
I am not going to argue so whatever...
Here is why I left Lexus out:
Cadillac:
CTS-V Corvette sourced LS2, 6.0L V8, 400hp/400ft*lb. 0-60 4.7 sec, ¼ mile 13.3 sec @ 105mph
2008 CTS-V is rumored to have the LS7, 7.0L V8 from the Z06. 505hp/480ft*lb. . . .OUCH!!!
The Caddies are a full second faster to 60mph, and 1+ seconds faster in the ¼ mile, have over 100hp and 150 ft*lb more umpf. Throw in an exhaust and a tune on all these cars (the Caddies and Lexus’) and watch the performance gap grow. . . .
The Lexus’ are pretty fast, but to if your looking for power, the Lexus’ ain’t the ticket. . . .
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Doung whatever your name is........why don't you go join a GM site and start talking sh*t about Toyota instead of coming to the Toyota forums to do it. Or even better yet why don't you get a life instead of picking apart everybody's comments, you don't like Toyota fine, understand, Toyota isnt your cup of tea, fine understood...no need to sit here trying to prove a point that you're not going to here. It's not like we're going to be like "OMG, Doug is so right! Toyota is boring lets all go join the GM forums since they have all these performance cars with all the cheap plastic all over them"
Doung whatever your name is........why don't you go join a GM site and start talking sh*t about Toyota instead of coming to the Toyota forums to do it.
I have a habit of taking apart the comments of people who lie.
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Or even better yet why don't you get a life instead of picking apart everybody's comments, you don't like Toyota fine, understand, Toyota isnt your cup of tea, fine understood...
Toyota makes great boring cars. Infact I bought one. For the times when I crave for adrenaline, that's when I jump on my sportbike.
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no need to sit here trying to prove a point that you're not going to here. It's not like we're going to be like "OMG, Doug is so right!
It won't make you any less of a person if you do.
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Toyota is boring lets all go join the GM forums since they have all these performance cars with all the cheap plastic all over them"
You think GM has cheap plastic all over it? You apparently haven't looked at your toyota close enough.
I agree some what with engineer and DougDannger and yes Toyota doesn't have a true sports car in that sense but they still have very competative cars that have just as much power/performance whether that be Toyota or Lexus...yeah it sucks they don't offer manuals but you have to remember they are appealing and have a much bigger market than Nissan, Mazda, Honda and majority of people will opt for the auto and us few "enthusists" will preferr a stick. I bet you if they did offer manuals they would be sitting on the lot and its such a shrinking market, but I'm not denying the draw of a manual that will attract enthusists. Of course we are loosely throw around the term enthusist cause we all have our definition.
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The Caddies are a full second faster to 60mph, and 1+ seconds faster in the ¼ mile, have over 100hp and 150 ft*lb more umpf. Throw in an exhaust and a tune on all these cars (the Caddies and Lexus’) and watch the performance gap grow. . . .
The Lexus’ are pretty fast, but to if your looking for power, the Lexus’ ain’t the ticket. . . .
Yeah, but who will last longer or make more trip to the stealership for repairs? For your informations, the Lexuses aren't supercharged, they're N/A. If the Lexus were to have the same horsepower or close to the American cars, guess who would win? Just watch until the F-Series Lexus to come out and compare then.
There's an old adage in racing. . . . . "It doesn't matter how you go fast, so long as you go FAST!!!
Turbo, no turbo, automatic or manual, 7 speed or 2 speed Powerglide. . . . .IT DOES NOT MATTER. EVO's, WRX STi's, Cobalt SS's, Z06's, Viper's, Solstice’s. . . . .these cars have race series championships under thier belt, the IS350 or LS460 (even with the "first 7-speed ) do not. Get with the program. Lexus makes some great cars, but lets not get carried away. . . .
As far as building motors that do not need Turbo's. . . . Why do you think so many people on this board bolt turbo's on when they really want to go fast? Yep, because it's the best way to make power. . . Too bad Toyota didn't send them from the factory with a turbo, if they did, maybe people wouldn't have to beef up the bottom end to handle it. . . . .
So long as you go FAST??? Would a Bugatti Veyron be able to reach 250mph with only half of the horsepower it has now? Yes, it still can but it would take longer. It needs the turbos to make that kind of power. I don't believe Toyota wants to build cars with turbos anymore since it cost too much and maintenance. Turbo aight the only way to make power, did you forget superchargers and nitrous? Not only people from this board but people from all around the world. Not just Toyotas but people with Nissan, Hondas, etc... Oh yeah, I've never seen Solstices and Cobalt in series championships, can you prove that? The Solstices just came out too.... Z06's, Viper's in 24hour LeMan. EVO's and WRX STi's in Rally. Lexus IS in drifting, have you seen drifting before? The 7 speed is for better fuel economy, do you know what fuel economy is? That is something American sport cars don't have. The more power you have the lesser gas mileage.
Cadillac:
CTS-V Corvette sourced LS2, 6.0L V8, 400hp/400ft*lb. 0-60 4.7 sec, ¼ mile 13.3 sec @ 105mph
2008 CTS-V is rumored to have the LS7, 7.0L V8 from the Z06. 505hp/480ft*lb. . . .OUCH!!! Lexus:
IS350 3.5L V6, 306hp/277ft*lb. 0-60 5.6 sec, ¼ mile 14.2 @ 98mph
At least compare apples to apples if you're going to do a comparison. The Cadillac V models are exclusive performance models, while the Lexi you showed were just normal models. Lexus is launching its F performance division, so don't just expect the performance gap to grow.
Also, your IS350 times are dead wrong.
0-60mph in 4.9s, 1/4 mile in 13.5s @ 105.5mph per Road and Track's testing in a 3 way comparison with the 2007 G35 sedan and Acura TL-S. 0.2s isn't much of a difference. I expect more from the CTS-V with its big V8.
Yeah, but who will last longer or make more trip to the stealership for repairs?
Is that what you're gonna tell yourself after you get your ass handed to you by a guy in a Cadillac? I see, you're going to use the "reliability card" as an ice pack for your bruised ego.
If you think Cadillac is junk, think again:
Their quality is way above the industry average. Isn't it funny how Hyundai does better than Toyota? Yes, Toyota themselves have been slipping on the quality scale.
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For your informations, the Lexuses aren't supercharged, they're N/A.
Thank you so much captain obvious.
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If the Lexus were to have the same horsepower or close to the American cars, guess who would win?
The American cars. The LS series are kick ass engines. Not to mention GM puts them on MANUAL TANSMISSIONS. You can take your supercharged AUTOMATIC Lexus and shove it where the sun don't shine.
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Just watch until the F-Series Lexus to come out and compare then.
Start doing your victory dance IF and when that happens. However, as of now, one thing is for sure, Lexus ---> <--- Cadillac
I don't believe Toyota wants to build cars with turbos anymore since it cost too much and maintenance.
Really? Subaru sells the WRX for as low as $23,800 and for the performance it offers, it's a fricken steal. Oh, and they are quite reliable and low maintenance.
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Turbo aight the only way to make power, did you forget superchargers and nitrous?
Turbos are more efficient and puts out more power than superchargers, on smaller displacement engines. And nitrous? You're kidding right? Nitrous tanks don't last too long. A turbocharged car NEVER runs out of boost as long as you have coolant and oil flowing through it. I suggest you pick up a book about forced induction.
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for better fuel economy, do you know what fuel economy is? That is something American sport cars don't have.
0-60mph in 4.9s, 1/4 mile in 13.5s @ 105.5mph per Road and Track's testing in a 3 way comparison with the 2007 G35 sedan and Acura TL-S. 0.2s isn't much of a difference. I expect more from the CTS-V with its big V8.
The funny thing about 0-60 times is that everyone gets something different. Thats why your best bet is to use the same source for all your 0-60 times. Instead of calling him a liar (which provokes further bashing) you should present him with the source from which you base your facts (Hopefully your values are all from the same source).
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Last edited by Mistabullet; 03-29-2007 at 02:30 AM.
Aznstylez, you are so misinformed, I honestly do not know where to start.
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Originally Posted by aznstylez
Turbo aight the only way to make power, did you forget superchargers and nitrous? Not only people from this board but people from all around the world. Not just Toyotas but people with Nissan, Hondas, etc...
Superchargers are not as efficient as a turbo, and given the exact same engine, the turbo setup will normally make more power. (I can’t believe I have to even explain this. . . .) Turbo’s run off the spent gasses of the combustion process, which is the natural byproduct of the Otto-cycle (4-stroke engine cycle). Turbo’s harness the exhaust gasses (already a byproduct) to spin a turbine to produce boost (or a pressure above 29.9 inHg, or 14.7 lbf). Superchargers run off of the crank, via a belt. This belt driven accessory draws power from the crank, and this power loss is called a “parasitic loss”. An engine could lose 20hp by installing a supercharger, yet the gain could be 100hp, for a net of 80hp. . . . the “parasitic losses” in a turbo (due to hindering the free flow of exhaust gasses) is much, much less.
As far a Nitrous, yea. . . . .bang for the buck it is great, but as Doug said, the bottles need to be refilled, plus you cant get that installed from the factory. I thought we were talking about factory “sports” cars here.
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Originally Posted by aznstylez
Oh yeah, I've never seen Solstices and Cobalt in series championships, can you prove that? The Solstices just came out too....
Solstice: SCCA Show Room Stock B Champion (you have heard of SCCA, right?). Your right, it did just come out, and is already kicking the crap out of the Miata’s, Civics, and BMW’s. . . .
"This win puts the finishing touch on an extremely strong rookie year for the Solstice in SCCA," said GM Performance Division executive John Heinricy. "We knew the Solstice would be very competitive, but winning a National and Northeast Division Championship in Club Racing and two more National Championships in Solo autocross competition really validates the performance of this top selling vehicle."
Cobalt SS: Grand-AM Cup ST Series. Finished 3rd in ’06 and 3rd in ’05 (they were in 1st place until last race of the season. . .). Two (2) Bonneville Salt Flats Land Speed records. G/BFALT Class record of 218.392mph and
G/FCC class record of 156.073mph.
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Originally Posted by aznstylez
Lexus IS in drifting, have you seen drifting before?
Oh, I did forget about Drifting, the GTO won the Formula D championship in 2005, and placed 2nd this past year. . . . .Thanks for reminding me. . . . .
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Originally Posted by aznstylez
The 7 speed is for better fuel economy, do you know what fuel economy is? That is something American sport cars don't have. The more power you have the lesser gas mileage.
I think Doug pretty much dispatched your “theory” in his post. . . .but here is a little more information. The Corvette Z06 is the ONLY supercar to avoid the Gas Guzzler Tax. That’s right, there is no other car (not even Lexus!!!!) that produces 505hp, and knocks down 27mpg, all while running deep into the 11’s in the ¼ mile, 0-60 in 3.7 sec and still gets 27mpg. . . . and it does it with only 6-speeds!!!!
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) do not. Get with the program. Lexus makes some great cars, but lets not get carried away. . . .
Why do you think so many people on this board bolt turbo's on when they really want to go fast? Yep, because it's the best way to make power. . . Too bad Toyota didn't send them from the factory with a turbo, if they did, maybe people wouldn't have to beef up the bottom end to handle it. . . . .
<--- Cadillac 
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