Yaris is cute, but Toyota's skimping isn't

[EchoHoLiK]

^^^ Agree. But you should just save your breath since they'll simply say it's just your opinion so it doesn't count, or you're a Toyota fanboy so it's biased, or you should try out the competitors (especially the ones of the domestic brands) before making biased assumptions, or........well, you get the point

[rezzle]

Originally Posted by EchoHoLiK

^^^ Agree. But you should just save your breath since they'll simply say it's just your opinion so it doesn't count, or you're a Toyota fanboy so it's biased, or you should try out the competitors (especially the ones of the domestic brands) before making biased assumptions, or........well, you get the point

hehe I did try them all when I bought the Echo... and I tried the *whole* Toyota lineup, Half the GM lineup, all the Honda lineup, three Mazdas, four fords, two Volkswagens, three Dodge/Chryslers, one Suzuki, one Beamer, and one Hyundai in 2005 when I bought the Legacy.

I'm a very thorough guy

[EchoHoLiK]

Originally Posted by rezzle

hehe I did try them all when I bought the Echo... and I tried the *whole* Toyota lineup, Half the GM lineup, all the Honda lineup, three Mazdas, four fords, two Volkswagens, three Dodge/Chryslers, one Suzuki, one Beamer, and one Hyundai in 2005 when I bought the Legacy.

I'm a very thorough guy

Yes, and overall a smart consumer

[rezzle]

Thanks ...
In some cases (Toyota, GM, Ford) my wife and I had to visit different dealerships, the sales guys were getting tired of showing us around lol

Oh I should mention, when we took a hyundai for a test drive one of the frost plugs half blew out of the block after about 500 feet of exiting the parking lot. Turned around and drove back and the thing was steaming like crazy cuz the antifreeze was spraying onto the exhaust header.
good build quality there .. not.

[dsmnick]

Originally Posted by Ne0z31

And about me bashing american cars... Americans are still building cars that dont match the quality of Japanese or european vehicles. Nor are they nearly as efficient as them. For gods sake, how long has the ford mustang not had independant rear suspension??? Even thier BEST model, the GT500, doesnt have it!!! They skimped out on building an amazing car, and possibly the most competitive Mustang of all time... but then they got lazy.

IRS adds weight and cost. Ford asked its Mustang owners whether they wanted IRS on the new ones and it was a resounding NO...because most Mustangs are taken to the drag strip 1/4 mile. The reason the Fox Body is still so popular for the drag strip is because it was so lightweight. Ford was doing their best to keep the cost down and adding IRS that the owners didn't want while also making the Mustang more expensive would have been a dumb move. Ford wouldn't have been able to get a new GT out the door for $25k if it had IRS equipped.

So yes, Ford is stupid for listening to the owners.

[EchoHoLiK]

^^^ Yes, cost issue was definitely the main concern. It made sense to keep the live-axle for the regular Mustang, but it was simply ridiculous to keep the suspension on a special edition with 500hp like the Shelby GT500.

Is the GT500KR also live-axle? For Christ-sake it has 50 more horsepower!!

[rezzle]

Originally Posted by dsmnick

So yes, Ford is stupid for listening to the owners

Especially the stupid ones.

Glad to see you are coming around.

[JetFuelAbuser]

I really don't understand why people think the comparison is valid.

The only Toyota vehicles that compete with the Honda Fit are the Scion xA (xD) and the xB; Soon the xB will have 50% more horsepower and bigger, for the same price. It will also have VSC, side impact and curtain airbags standard. And the xD will have 33% more horsepower with the same safety features standard.

The Yaris competes with Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent and Chevy Aveo. It's BASIC transportation. That's all.

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by JetFuelAbuser

I really don't understand why people think the comparison is valid.

The only Toyota vehicles that compete with the Honda Fit are the Scion xA (xD) and the xB; Soon the xB will have 50% more horsepower and bigger, for the same price. It will also have VSC, side impact and curtain airbags standard. And the xD will have 33% more horsepower with the same safety features standard.

The Yaris competes with Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent and Chevy Aveo. It's BASIC transportation. That's all.

i think it's a valid comparison. They're the same size and price (at least in Canada). Sure the Yaris starts lower but it doesn't have side/side curtains even as options. Besides, we don't get Scion so it's a fair comparison up here.

[Ne0z31]

Originally Posted by dsmnick

IRS adds weight and cost. Ford asked its Mustang owners whether they wanted IRS on the new ones and it was a resounding NO...because most Mustangs are taken to the drag strip 1/4 mile. The reason the Fox Body is still so popular for the drag strip is because it was so lightweight. Ford was doing their best to keep the cost down and adding IRS that the owners didn't want while also making the Mustang more expensive would have been a dumb move. Ford wouldn't have been able to get a new GT out the door for $25k if it had IRS equipped.

So yes, Ford is stupid for listening to the owners.

Watching a mustang on a road course or auto-x course is possibly the most retarded sight ive ever seen, The mustang is titled a GT Car... Grand Touring...

The FIA defines a GT car as "an open or closed automobile which has no more than one door on each side and a minimum of two seats situated one on each side of the longitudinal centre line of the car; these two seats must be crossed by the same transversal plane. This car must be able to be used perfectly legally on the open road, and adapted for racing on circuits or closed courses."

Well lets hope a mustang doesnt try and get on any kind of circuit, cause its a horrible excuse for a circuit vehicle...

[Voodoo.Priest]

Originally Posted by sciguy0504

There's no excuse: side airbags and ABS should be standard.

I agree with the brakes but there is very little evidence that airbags actually make you safer. Well they do but the increase in safety from them statistically is like less then 1% according to a study I read a year ago. I'd rather save my money and not have them at all.

[ghettosled]

look how well the beetle did when it first came out decades ago - because it was a VERY cheap and cute car. why doesnt toyota do something like that now? have a very bare bones model manual windows and door locks, no ABS or airbags, no tach or anything else aside from the bare essentials. imagine if there was a brand new toyota that was simple enough for most people to work on themselves, got great fuel mileago and sold brand new for $6500. heck, i would buy that as my commuter car.

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by ghettosled

look how well the beetle did when it first came out decades ago - because it was a VERY cheap and cute car. why doesnt toyota do something like that now? have a very bare bones model manual windows and door locks, no ABS or airbags, no tach or anything else aside from the bare essentials. imagine if there was a brand new toyota that was simple enough for most people to work on themselves, got great fuel mileago and sold brand new for $6500. heck, i would buy that as my commuter car.

and look good? Sounds like you want the Endo concept car to be a production hehe.


At least driver's airbag. Passenger optional haha. Seriously though, I've noticed manufacturer's are skimping on the side impact protection before they assume the side airbags will cushion (no pun intended) their ratings.

Ever looked at cars that have opt. side airbags? The trim level without it always does horribly while the one with side airbags does really well.

Yet, we've survived (no pun intended again) for a while without side airbags (or side impact bars in the doors for that matter). I'm not saying I'm against side airbags or safety. I'm saying manufacturers need to beef up their side impact protection WITHOUT relying on side airbags to boost their safety ratings up.

It's not that hard to put stronger beams in the door (helps if it's a 2dr since there's less cost b/c of.. well 2 drs instead of 4). It'll make the door a bit heavier but that'll add to the perception that it's not a cheap car when you close the door.

[Bakemono]

Originally Posted by xpeed

I'm amazed that they don't bash on the Chevy Aveo, which is a Daewoo in Korea. I'm pretty sure the Yaris and the Aveo have similar materials and price.

I was just thinking the same thing. No doubt Detroit News praised the Aveo.
I offer exhibit A: http://info.detnews.com/autosconsume...x.cfm?id=24619

The 2007 Chevrolet Aveo LS is comfortable, solidly constructed, and surprisingly eager to please.

the Aveo's most notable visual feature is the big-and-proud Chevy bowtie and dual-port grille, direct from America's heartland by way of the Korean peninsula.

Another article from the L.A. times, but Det News sure loves to praise the domestics (which shouldnt be a surprise considering it is DETROIT news, afterall)